Discussion in 'football' started by Brixton Hatter, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    Right I'm off to bed but I would like to ask one question before I go.

    Does anyone here actually really believe that they dislike/hate/despise Paul Gascoigne more than Paul Gascoigne does?
  2. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    behave yourself Wilf.

    I asked, quite specifically, did her book mirror her previous statements or not? Why not answer the question instead of deliberately misrepresenting what I have stated. You are far better and far more intelligent than that, no?

    Gascoigne confessed very clearly many years ago that he hit her.
  3. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Official Twitter Liaison Officer

    Actually it's one person, an internationally fit sportsman, punching fuck out of a woman.

    But it wasn't was his drunken, aggressive, arseholish behaviour spiralling fatefully to the bottom of the barrel and ignominy.

    When someone is there, it's up to them to admit it, be defeated by it and to ask for help. It's certainly not for others to pull them out of it or support their actions, to excuse them, until they show enough remorse and humility to be willing to change.

    Otherwise that shit just happens again. And if it happens again anyway...fuck em. They're never going to grow up.
  4. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby Share knowledge, don't weaponize it

    Are you prepared for an answer without lashing out at people?
  5. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Official Twitter Liaison Officer

    Well...the answer is in the question...if liam hates himself more than he visits hate on others....that's some depth of hate you don't want to know about. It has to be challenged, to be confronted. Only a long visit to the rehab/head doctor will do anything about it...that doesn't happen without confrontation (intervention?)

    I mean...gazza.

    (we're blocked, it's not trolling)
  6. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    Just for a bit of context. I do a bit of voluntary work with addicts. I don't 'do' anything as such, just whatever I am asked. Mostly menial jobs like serving tea and cleaning - jobs I do alongside the addicts. Mostly the 'work' consists of just treating them as human beings, of listening to them, of helping them recover some humanity and dignity. They all have a story to tell, much of it harrowing.

    Many of these have done truly horrible things to themselves, to their loved ones and often to complete strangers - just as many have had huge indignity and abuse inflicted on them. They would make Gascoigne on his worst day seem like a role model.

    It took me quite a few years to face up to my own judgemental tendencies enough for me to be able to engage with them. I struggled big time some years ago with my feelings of revulsion when confronted with heroin addicts who had sold their children into prostitution for a fix. I was amazed at the ability of people to engage with this 'scum of the earth'.

    I now find it much easier because I try to look for some spark of humanity rather than my previous (scared and defensive but ultimately much lazier... and safer) reaction which was to look for something to rail about or condemn.

    I would love one day to be strong enough and secure enough to be able to work with the ultimate pariahs - nonces. I fear that day will be a long time coming but I will continue to search for that strength.
    RaverDrew likes this.
  7. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

    Liam, if you work with addicts, that's good. Yes, it's also good to deal with addicts, offenders or others as human beings. At the level of empathy, at the level of changing someone's behaviour, yes, yes, all of that. However, leaping from that empathy to questioning the story of the actual victim (precisely what you were doing in post 129) is out of order.
    framed and krtek a houby like this.
  8. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby Share knowledge, don't weaponize it

  9. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    1. We should always question things. Why should DV victims get a bye ball? Question everything.

    2. Working with world-class bullshitters and self-deluders can make you cynical. So does somebody who had made a 20-year career out of being Gascoigne's 'victim' but who has never once -to my knowledge - accepted any part in his downfall.
  10. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    Also, someone (Clicker I think) referred to her 'putting her child first' above. How does publishing a book in 2008 -when the child is 12 years of age and presumably has plenty mates who read papers etc - qualify as putting the interests of her son first?

    It's not like she needs the money. Gascoigne has taken care of that via Trust funds apparently.
  11. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

    You're apparently pretty good at discovering the 'spark of humanity' in all of these damaged footballers et al. Less generous of spirit when it comes to a victim of DV. Funny that. :(
    framed, krtek a houby and bendeus like this.
  12. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    I would have a great deal more sympathy if she was not so expert at playing the media and if she had not made her living for the last 20 years off the name of her ex. Same goes for her talentless daughter who hates her once-stepfather so much she continues to trade off his name in her chosen career as z-list celebrity.

    I would take everything she says with a large does of salt.
  13. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby Share knowledge, don't weaponize it

    Yeah, crocodile tears for the manchild Gazza but nothing but scorn for the women who try to rebuild lives blighted by domestic abuse. Hmmm.
    framed likes this.
  14. YouSir

    YouSir Look out Laika, it's Earth.

    Liam, who do you actually qualify as being a cunt? Or rather, who do you admit is a cunt who you also feel some sense of identification with? Seems as if anyone whose past or present you recognise and empathise with gets page after page of defence while those you don't - don't.
    framed likes this.
  15. Corax

    Corax Luke 5:16

    Not urban's finest hour this, IMHO. We don't live in a monochrome world, however much more comfortable that would make us feel. I severely doubt that either Gascoigne or LiamO are the embodiment of pure evil.
    framed likes this.
  16. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    fair question. Not keen at all on dismissing people as 'cunts'.

    I think it is fairer to speak of perhaps 'cuntish' behaviour. For example, on the Joey Barton thread I twice noted his cuntish behaviour in the first couple of pages(That was apparently not strident enough for some and they continue to troll around stamping their angry little pixie feet - and behaving in a similar manner to those they profess to despise).

    People who - although they have the intelligence, the resources and the capability to investigate for themselves - insist on seeing everything as black & white, goodies and baddies are FWIW IMO behaving like cunts. That they then cherry-pick and ignore valid information so they can simply condemn a man who is several pence short of the full shilling is also cuntish.

    IME most bad things are done by mostly good people behaving in a bad way - mostly because they do not see viable alternatives at that particular moment.

    I have often seen people change their violent behaviour and reactions when shown respect, love and understanding. Sometimes this is a frustrating process and involves many setbacks. But it produces results on occasion.

    I have never seen anyone change their behaviour because enough people call them cunts. Not one. Ever.
    Corax likes this.
  17. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    If people wish to dismiss others as 'cunts' that is their choice.

    But they should at least be honest and admit that this is nothing to do with the 'cunt' in question and everything to do with their own need to feel validated and superior.

    Or sometimes - as was the case when I dismissed Dexter earlier as a 'lightweight cunt' and he exploded so comically - it can be to give somebody a taste of their own medicine. Dexter did not like that. At all. And once again missed the point. Lightweight cunt.
  18. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    Pistorius thread up in P&P^. Rumours of a history of domestic violence prior to the incident.

    Think there might be a now-deceased girlfriend there who's in need of a good blaming.
    LiamO, krtek a houby and DexterTCN like this.
  19. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Official Twitter Liaison Officer

    post 102, the fat, ginger, snake-oil salesman wasn't even talking to me, it was krtek.
  20. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby Share knowledge, don't weaponize it

    He's talking to himself, at this sorry stage. Notice how he goes batshit when people disagree with him and even more looney when they react to his shennanigans. Followed by yet another endless monologue about behaviour and intelligence.

    The irony.
  21. mack

    mack Fact Me Till I Fart

    The fucking Daily Mail had another awful article up about Gazza earlier today, it was so bad they've taken it down now.
  22. Corax

    Corax Luke 5:16

    There's reasonable points on both sides on this thread, but they're being buried in long-running beef and abuse.

    Yes, this is Urban I know...
  23. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member


    the english Daily Star had 3 pages yesterday from some waster who was gascoigne's 'mate' the last few months (from what I gather this means leeching drink, drugs etc for an unspecifed time).

    He has repaid his patron gascoigne by taking photos of him apparently shooting up (Coke, I think) and selling them to a tabloid... but only cos he is worried about him you understand.

    From what I can see this has been Gascoignes life story since he first arrived as a footballer.
  24. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    So join in and calm things down with some considered posts. It will be interesting to see how some posters react.
  25. Corax

    Corax Luke 5:16

    There are deep-seated vendettas running here. Voicing an opinion in those circumstances on here tends to be perceived as picking a 'side', and does nothing to calm things down.
    LiamO likes this.
  26. RaverDrew

    RaverDrew self-banned for a bit R.I.P.

    krtek a houby and framed like this.
  27. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    Fair point.

    But would you seriously let being accused of 'taking sides' stop you posting? And maybe your presence would have a calming effect. AFAIK nobody here has old beef with you.

    I accept my responsibility for some of the ill-feeling on this thread.

    I would be happy to step aside to allow reasoned discusion.
  28. Corax

    Corax Luke 5:16

    Sadly (perhaps) I would (and do), yes. Although I *know* that this place is just an intermaweb message forum, I have in the past allowed the aggression of others to affect me, by allowing it to matter to me. In the real world, I happily challenge people on these things, but that's very different IME. For one thing, IRL others tend to be more prone to consider opposing opinions even if they disagree with them. Also, others tend not to behave with such outright hostility. I don't think these things are unrelated.

    IRL, suggesting an opposing view can make someone think again, and is less likely to be responded to with hostility. Sometimes on here too, but not on threads that have gone the way of this one - IME.

    A lot of that's probably due to the lack of tone of voice, body language etc, which allows posters to build up dehumanised pictures of those they often disagree with.

    tldr: Cost/benefit. If it's going to cause me grief and do nothing to change the minds of others, why do it?
    LiamO and framed like this.
  29. framed

    framed Leave it!

    Corax likes this.
  30. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    Fair dues.

    Didn't stop you on the Venables thread though?:)

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