Gazza

Discussion in 'football' started by Brixton Hatter, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    On an Ipad so can't do flashy quote by quote posting.

    1) Why do you want to remove gender from the equation altogether? It appears to be a fairly clear power imbalance in every respect, including the most obvious.

    2) Your very recent post seems to make your position fairly clear about your feelings for Bazza's 'loved ones', so why invoke them now as backup to your point?

    3) You've been consistently shrill and tending towards ad hom without at any point moving beyond your position of MH providing sufficient reasoning for what appears to be a sustained, brutal and calculating attack on another human being. You've consistently refused to answer questions and have instead shifted the point of attack. I don't give a fuck about forgiveness: you're welcome to bathe in it, but what I do give a fuck about is the fact that this muppet appears to be given more latitude for his crimes than any other, and the fact that you saw fit to call the injured party's integrity into question in order to reinforce your point.

    Pretty poor showing, IMO.
     
  2. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    I don't. I haven't. IME it is not necessarily a factor at all. Although obviously most physical spousal abuse is male on female.
     
  3. clicker

    clicker nanook rubs it....

    Did I say that someone, ' wanting to extend some compassion to a deeply flawed and tragic human being ' was using that as ' a defence of wife-beating?' No I didn't.....so I can't explain it and don't know why you are asking me to? Maybe someone else did?
     
  4. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    His loved ones would include his son and his wider family and friends.

    Me and millions of others.

    Why should his ex and her daughter's motivation and integrity be sacrosanct? Particularly when many people find it less than convincing?
     
  5. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    Now I have you. Sorry, that was not aimed at you in particular. it's what some people have accused me of repeatedly on here.
     
    clicker likes this.
  6. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    Oh, that's alright, then.
     
    krtek a houby likes this.
  7. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    It isn't. I think I've been (fairly) consistent in calling 'it' 'spousal abuse'. And yes, it is, as is widely known. In this particular instance one more powerful (in every way) individual has fucked up someone less powerful. Would you agree?
     
  8. clicker

    clicker nanook rubs it....


    That's ok. No, I said you were mean spirited to suggest a victim of domestic violence was gilding the lily to sell books.
     
  9. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    No. I wouldn't actually. I would say there were TWO very damaged people in this relationship and they both had a devastating effect on the other.

    I would have sympathy for her as a human being... and as somebody who ended up getting battered.

    However, long before he turned violent the writing was on the wall that this compulsive love/hate, in-and-out-of-love soap opera would end in tears. And from what I remember of the documentary I saw she was the manipulative, controlling figure in the relationship. He seemed scared of her.

    Of course that does not either excuse or condone what he did later. But that's what happens all too often in these kinds of relationships.

    Can I ask how old you are? Just to get some idea of how you might remember this period? Same question to Clicker.
     
  10. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    "Both ended up having a damaging effect" who repeatedly assaulted who?

    "Ended up being battered" why and by whom?

    "Long before the writing was on the wall..." You're right there; for abusers the writing is usually 'on the wall' pretty early on, and continues until they thankfully relinquish their grip on mortality.

    "I saw, blah, blah" Yes, she clearly brought it on herself.

    Forty. And I don't see much point in continuing the discussion. I find your stance disturbing, tbh.
     
    krtek a houby and weepiper like this.
  11. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Official Twitter Liaison Officer

    I'm 48, and I see him as nothing but an apologist for male violence, I'm afraid*.

    *I'm not afraid.
     
    krtek a houby likes this.
  12. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

    Bad form Liam. :( You are pretty directly accusing her of lying or, at the very least, now exaggerating something that was orignally a 'minor event'. Needless to say, accusing the victims of domestic violence of lying is one of the mechanisms that keeps it going. You'd have no reason to question her - but you choose to do to keep up your one man defence of 'damaged footballers'. That's pretty low.
     
  13. clicker

    clicker nanook rubs it....

    I'm a couple of years younger than gazza. So remember it quite well - not from the football fan pov, wouldnt even know who he played for apart from England, but from the he / they were always splattered over the papers and news for something or the other. I remember the documentary really well, but possibly a different one to you - can't recall him being scared of her? he was just a voice on the end of the phone in the one i saw....the kids crying is what stuck with me.
     
  14. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    No, that's about where I'm sitting right now also.
     
  15. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    The reason I asked your age was to gauge if you were posting from memory or what you have read subsequently.

    That seems a perfectly reasonable question in the circumstances.
     
  16. clicker

    clicker nanook rubs it....

    Memories can be selective ?
     
  17. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    I think so. The one I was on about was when he was at rangers and they were very much together.
     
  18. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    It wasn't the question that made me give up, it was the utter lack of self-awareness, but maybe I'm just chest beating.
     
  19. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    certainly. Can you point me to this doco you are on about? I would like to watch it before posting.

    I would see the pair of them as very much in the Katie Price & Whoever/ Kerry Katona & her latest / Mandy Smith/ Fiona Wright etc etc car crashes.
     
  20. clicker

    clicker nanook rubs it....

    No didnt see that one. The one I saw he was meant to be in, but flaked it at the last call and things were obviously really bad. It was traumatic viewing.
     
  21. clicker

    clicker nanook rubs it....

    I think it could be the one she describes in the link above somewhere...it was shown in the last 5 years or thereabouts.
     
  22. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    i'm sorry you choose to think that Wilf.

    Again you are insisting on making this about 'victims of domestic violence' generally rather than about these two individuals.

    I have every reason - and every right - to question her motives. I will ask the question again too... just for clarity.

    Do her later 'recollections' tally with her earlier ones, or not? That is a valid question. Can anyone answer it?

    If they do was Gascoigne ever arrested or charged with them? I honestly can't recall and it's all a bit pre-google.

    To NOT question is the mistaken approach AFAICS.
     
  23. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Official Twitter Liaison Officer

    Only to someone defending gazza.

    Or barton.
     
  24. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    Right. I have not seen it.

    the one I referred to was maybe pre Euro 96 or just after
     
  25. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

    Why? Why do you feel you have to question her recollections? Why do you have to question her motives? If this is a 'specific', do you have particular reasons to think she is lying? On the 'general' point, do you think questioning the victim is the best place to start?
     
  26. clicker

    clicker nanook rubs it....

    Just found a couple of one minute clips on you tube...its called Surviving Gazza and shows him when i think he finally turned up at the end of filming for a few minutes and a short clip of the elder son. It's about 4/5 years old. Considering his current state i can't see any merit in it being repeated now, but it would have made an interesting repeat for the benefit of this thread.
     
  27. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    It is not in dispute that this is where this ill-starred pantomime ended up. Nor is it in dispute that he hit her.



    again with this 'abusers' and 'usually' horse-shit. I am talking about two people. You are talking about abusers and victims... as two set-in-concrete groups. It's ridiculous and it's also clearly about you rather than Gascoigne.

    I never said that. Not once. I just pointed out that you did not need to be a rocket scientist to see that this relationship -like Sid & Nancy and thousands before - would end in tears. I think it is fair to say that many were shocked at what he descended to though.

    and I yours. That's why I am perfectly willing to continue.
     
  28. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    because she made these statements whilst hawking a book that cost £18.99 and could only sell them by making the allegations as juicy as possible. A comparison might be useful. Might also prive me dead wrong.

    because of all I saw and read of her long before their 'fairy-tale' turned into a nightmare.

    That is not even worthy of an answer.
     
  29. LiamO

    LiamO Well-Known Member

    It's based on her book then, which has the same title. I must have a watch of it.
     
  30. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

    ... but, now you say 'it's not in dispute that he hit her'.... but, but, but she's making it 'juicy'.
     

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