Gaza journalist wins award - and a 12 hour beating from the IDF
- Thread starter Spion
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Well, it can even be put (as I have said) , "spiritual" but non-observant. There was actually a time, after I had spent my first 2 years in the army up in Lebanon when I questioned His existence. I matured though and after a very long period of research, introspection, and exploration I came to the conclusion that Judiasim is the only true faith but that faith is a personal issue, should never be interpolated into public and above all political life, and that living life as I have I can but merely strive (it is all any of us can do in the best of times) and hope to elevate myself along the way.
As I often say, my wife wishes for me to be much more observant and inf act in our daily emails the last thing she always says is to make sure I only eat kosher. I am no longer in the army, and as difficult as it is in the Philippines, I do plan on becoming more observant once I quit running around (travelling for the family businesses,etc).
Funny, in 99 the IDF created its first Charedi Battalion, in my Brigade of all places (although it has been moved to K'fir Brigade as of this past year) and had I been younger I might have been Charedi all my life. In my time there was no outward observance allowed and it was actually ridiculed quite a bit. Still have to write to your CO if you want to wear a beard in Active but it is totally accepted now.
As I often say, my wife wishes for me to be much more observant and inf act in our daily emails the last thing she always says is to make sure I only eat kosher. I am no longer in the army, and as difficult as it is in the Philippines, I do plan on becoming more observant once I quit running around (travelling for the family businesses,etc).
Funny, in 99 the IDF created its first Charedi Battalion, in my Brigade of all places (although it has been moved to K'fir Brigade as of this past year) and had I been younger I might have been Charedi all my life. In my time there was no outward observance allowed and it was actually ridiculed quite a bit. Still have to write to your CO if you want to wear a beard in Active but it is totally accepted now.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
1. It is oppressive and is symbolic of your utter contempt for another people.
2. Israel still occupies land that it seized in 1967 and has repeatedly flouted international law.
3. People still fled from East Berlin, so the wall was not as effective as it was believed to be.
4. Dwyer is on permanent ignore and, in any case, he's makes about as much sense as you. None.
5. You have no concept of what oppression actually means, since it is you who is doing the oppressing.
Nino: Per your "points":
I) If the Barier is "oppressive" it is only because of acts committed by the oppressed themselves. In actuality, it is the Israelis (of ALL ethnicities and faiths) who continue to be oppressed by the spectre of terrorism. Should "Palestinians" cease to commit acts of terrorism for a substantial period of time , OR agree to peace formally the Barrier will simply disappear, goodbye "oppression." Sadly the opprresion of Israelis is not something the Israelis can control, as the "Palestinians" do with the object of THEIR oppression.
As always, "Palestinians" hold all the cards. It is entirely up to them. I have never met an Israeli who likes to wait to pass through the Barrier either, nor have I met an Israeli soldier or Border Policeman who enjoys working the Barrier.
IIa) "Israel still occupies land it seized (sic) in 1967...":Neither Egypt nor Jordan ever agreed to take back either Gaza or the so called "WB." Israel was thus saddled with their administration. Pretty funny that prior to 67 terrorism existed in full force, but Activism against the Egyptian and Jordanian "Occupations" was never even an idea.
As for other lands, i.e. Syrian territory, the UN recognises that Syria has consistently refused to negotiate with Israel, let alone even recognise Israel's very existence (not that the UN has anything at all to do with International Law). The UN could hardly be called an entity that has ever shown favoritism towards Israel (even the 1947 Partition which brought Israel into existence was NOT favourable , in terms, towards Israel) and so its recognition of Syria's failures in the afore mentioned areas is indicative of the dynamic in general.
IIb) "Israel has continuously flouted International Law.": Not at all. Israel has merely interpreted International Law in a different manner than Arabs and their supporters. As indicated by the lack of even a case ever being brought in any International Court, this school of interpreation is at least as valid as that of the Arabs, et al. Were Israel remiss, you would see it eternally tied up in the Hague,etc. To date, the ONLY thing to ever happen was a Brief which equals NOTHING. No charges, no indcitments, no trials, and certainly no convictions. Propaganda is nice, but it is not reality Nino.
III) "People still fled from E. Berlin, so the Berlin Wall was not as effective as Rachamim and others maintain.": Just because a tiny portion of people attempting to escape were successful does not then negate the ability of the Wall to have stopped many more. Are you suggesting more people escaped than were interdicted?
IVa) "Dwyer is on Permanant Ignore (by Nino).": OK, thanks for letting me know that. It has nothing to do with me.
IVb) "Dwyer makes as little sense as Rachamim.": So why am I not on ignore?
You know Nino, I have often said here and elsewhere that people should not be censored, although they SHOULD maintain civility (the option of course being the individual's). I think that even the most horrible person in the world can teach one seomthing. Dwyer is FAR from the "most horrible person."
Perhaps, after a breather, you might recosnider your decison and expand your horizons.
V) "Israel has no concept of what oppression is since it is Israel that is oppressing.": Really? Have you never heard of how the Brits allowed Arabs to exterminate entire Jewish Communities? How the Brits arrested and executed Israelis for crimes as minimal as membership in an organisation? That the Brtis blockaded "Mandate Palestine?" That the Brits turned shiploads of Jews in cocentration camp uniforms back to the same countries that had murdered their familes and torturned them? That the Brits rammed shiploads of Jewish Refugess without regard to personal injury and/or death to the Jews on board? Should I now begin the list of oppression by OTHER parties?
Oppression is not a singular privilege reserved for "Palestinians" alone. "Palestinians" were offered a nation the same year as the Zionists, 1919. That the Zionists accepted only a tiny, tiny portion of the total land, the inferior portion of the land in terms of natural resources, and only a small percentage of their ancestral lands is not the "fault" of Zionists, Jews, or Israelis. Israel took what was offered and made it work. Arabs refused EVERYTHING (they even sh$t on Oslo) and then screamed "No Fair!."
I) If the Barier is "oppressive" it is only because of acts committed by the oppressed themselves. In actuality, it is the Israelis (of ALL ethnicities and faiths) who continue to be oppressed by the spectre of terrorism. Should "Palestinians" cease to commit acts of terrorism for a substantial period of time , OR agree to peace formally the Barrier will simply disappear, goodbye "oppression." Sadly the opprresion of Israelis is not something the Israelis can control, as the "Palestinians" do with the object of THEIR oppression.
As always, "Palestinians" hold all the cards. It is entirely up to them. I have never met an Israeli who likes to wait to pass through the Barrier either, nor have I met an Israeli soldier or Border Policeman who enjoys working the Barrier.
IIa) "Israel still occupies land it seized (sic) in 1967...":Neither Egypt nor Jordan ever agreed to take back either Gaza or the so called "WB." Israel was thus saddled with their administration. Pretty funny that prior to 67 terrorism existed in full force, but Activism against the Egyptian and Jordanian "Occupations" was never even an idea.
As for other lands, i.e. Syrian territory, the UN recognises that Syria has consistently refused to negotiate with Israel, let alone even recognise Israel's very existence (not that the UN has anything at all to do with International Law). The UN could hardly be called an entity that has ever shown favoritism towards Israel (even the 1947 Partition which brought Israel into existence was NOT favourable , in terms, towards Israel) and so its recognition of Syria's failures in the afore mentioned areas is indicative of the dynamic in general.
IIb) "Israel has continuously flouted International Law.": Not at all. Israel has merely interpreted International Law in a different manner than Arabs and their supporters. As indicated by the lack of even a case ever being brought in any International Court, this school of interpreation is at least as valid as that of the Arabs, et al. Were Israel remiss, you would see it eternally tied up in the Hague,etc. To date, the ONLY thing to ever happen was a Brief which equals NOTHING. No charges, no indcitments, no trials, and certainly no convictions. Propaganda is nice, but it is not reality Nino.
III) "People still fled from E. Berlin, so the Berlin Wall was not as effective as Rachamim and others maintain.": Just because a tiny portion of people attempting to escape were successful does not then negate the ability of the Wall to have stopped many more. Are you suggesting more people escaped than were interdicted?
IVa) "Dwyer is on Permanant Ignore (by Nino).": OK, thanks for letting me know that. It has nothing to do with me.
IVb) "Dwyer makes as little sense as Rachamim.": So why am I not on ignore?
You know Nino, I have often said here and elsewhere that people should not be censored, although they SHOULD maintain civility (the option of course being the individual's). I think that even the most horrible person in the world can teach one seomthing. Dwyer is FAR from the "most horrible person."
Perhaps, after a breather, you might recosnider your decison and expand your horizons.
V) "Israel has no concept of what oppression is since it is Israel that is oppressing.": Really? Have you never heard of how the Brits allowed Arabs to exterminate entire Jewish Communities? How the Brits arrested and executed Israelis for crimes as minimal as membership in an organisation? That the Brtis blockaded "Mandate Palestine?" That the Brits turned shiploads of Jews in cocentration camp uniforms back to the same countries that had murdered their familes and torturned them? That the Brits rammed shiploads of Jewish Refugess without regard to personal injury and/or death to the Jews on board? Should I now begin the list of oppression by OTHER parties?
Oppression is not a singular privilege reserved for "Palestinians" alone. "Palestinians" were offered a nation the same year as the Zionists, 1919. That the Zionists accepted only a tiny, tiny portion of the total land, the inferior portion of the land in terms of natural resources, and only a small percentage of their ancestral lands is not the "fault" of Zionists, Jews, or Israelis. Israel took what was offered and made it work. Arabs refused EVERYTHING (they even sh$t on Oslo) and then screamed "No Fair!."
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
You appear to be wrong on the first point. Jews and Arabs alike are affected by political antisemitism that first reared it's head in 19th century Europe and recycled the classical antisemitism of medieval millenarianism, before spreading to USA in the form of Dispensationalism/Reconstructionism/Dominionism. So-called religious prophecies were then woven from biblical literalism by charismatic militant protestants to support the increased drive to persuade Jews to leave US/Europe and to ingather in Israel. The main fault as ever is European and USA militant christian-inspired antisemitism that holds that Semitic people belong in only one place -- Israel (if you're Jewish) or 'Hejaz' (if you're Arab). Driving these theories of belonging and migration is the desire to rid Europe/USA of non-Christians/non-Christian cultural groups.
Ergo, both Arabs and Jews are deeply affected by the attitudes of US militant fundamentalist Christians. They depend on playing Jews off against Muslims - Israelis against Arabs. They have successfully played us off politically since the late 70s early 80s, and oppose any form of peace between us. They spend a great deal of funds (tax break because they are supposedly charities) supporting American/European settlers in funding of settlements which dispossess the Palestinians.
The route the wall takes cuts off Palestinians from their farmland, their olive groves, their livelihood. It is not only immoral, it is oppressive.
It is oppressive and illegal.
Discussion thread on the Wall here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=256236
Note: The tear gas cannisters fired at Israeli and Palestinian objectors to the wall say "Made in Pennsylvania".
Ergo, both Arabs and Jews are deeply affected by the attitudes of US militant fundamentalist Christians. They depend on playing Jews off against Muslims - Israelis against Arabs. They have successfully played us off politically since the late 70s early 80s, and oppose any form of peace between us. They spend a great deal of funds (tax break because they are supposedly charities) supporting American/European settlers in funding of settlements which dispossess the Palestinians.
The route the wall takes cuts off Palestinians from their farmland, their olive groves, their livelihood. It is not only immoral, it is oppressive.
It is oppressive and illegal.
Discussion thread on the Wall here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=256236
Note: The tear gas cannisters fired at Israeli and Palestinian objectors to the wall say "Made in Pennsylvania".
Tangent: "Political Anti-Semitism affects both Arabs and Jews.": Yes, but what is the relation to the so called oppressiveness of the Barrier?
"Jews belong only in Israel.": I know that you are relating the opinion of others and not stating this yourself. However, the Disapora has always existed and always served a very valuable purpose to the homneland. This being irrefutable (in my mind), I mantain that the vast majority of Jews do belong in their own homeland. Why should we live as minorities with the pursuant status (even in the most emanicpated of cultures one must subvert one's self to the dominanat culture) whjen we can live as the majority in the soil literally made from the bones of our ancestors?
There is no feeling on Earth like the feeling a Jew with Knowledge of Self gets when stepping off a plane (or other conveyance) that has just come to Israel. To stand in one's own land is a special feeling and to me, it is the best feeling in the world bar none.
"Arabs belong in Hejaz.": They belong anywhere they wish as long as they respect the fact that only Hejaz is their true homeland and all other lands claiming to be "Arab" aremerely occupied by Arabs. The same pricniple applies to Arabs as it does to Jews. However, there is a very distinct difference in that Arabs live as the majority in 25 nations plus Gaza and the PA.
"American-European Settlements.": This is a huge myth. The majority of the 270,000 Jews living in YESHA ("WB") are of Mizrachi and/or Sephardic descent. Just because one sees a Jew in Charedi clothing does not mean that they are Ashkenazi although THAT makes no difference. Ashkeanzi are Jews just as much as the most Mizrachi Jew. Both share a much cloer relationship (genetically) to one another than any other outside population and this is irrefutable scientifically (closest non-Jewish genetic pool being the Kurdi). IF ALL came from Brooklyn, Blesss them because itis THEIR homeland, not an Arab's. Who calls Hebron "al Khalil"? Not even most Arabs. Mah'sah'dah is not an Arab relic, nor is Shilo or the Herodium, and so on.
The "route" is based on scientific data Tangent. The propensity of attacks emanating from a particular area is what determines its route, not Arab olive groves OR "Settlements." To suggest an entity that has led more than a 96% drop in fatal terrorist attacks is "oppressive" is a form of oppression itself. I could not care less that ANYONE must wait so many minutes to pick olives when I and my children can live with a 96% greater chance at a natural lifespan.
AGAIN, IF Arabs wish for it to disappear it s very, very, very simple: STOP THE violence. The Barrier is not based upon a supposition that Arabs are engaging in MLK type non-violent resistance but that Arabs are trying to bomb Israelis out of existence.
LEt me ask you a question and please answer honestly as i know you always do: IF you lived in a nighbourhood plauged by IRA bombings, and a Barrier was erected that caused people from an Irish neighbourhood to wait 45 minutes to get to their jobs or schools but also led to a 96% drop in deadly bombings, would you be so opposed to the Barrier? It is not a cheapshot to ask you as a parent or even simply as a human being, it is a rational and highly sensible analogy. So then, as I aksed, would you be complaining?
"Jews belong only in Israel.": I know that you are relating the opinion of others and not stating this yourself. However, the Disapora has always existed and always served a very valuable purpose to the homneland. This being irrefutable (in my mind), I mantain that the vast majority of Jews do belong in their own homeland. Why should we live as minorities with the pursuant status (even in the most emanicpated of cultures one must subvert one's self to the dominanat culture) whjen we can live as the majority in the soil literally made from the bones of our ancestors?
There is no feeling on Earth like the feeling a Jew with Knowledge of Self gets when stepping off a plane (or other conveyance) that has just come to Israel. To stand in one's own land is a special feeling and to me, it is the best feeling in the world bar none.
"Arabs belong in Hejaz.": They belong anywhere they wish as long as they respect the fact that only Hejaz is their true homeland and all other lands claiming to be "Arab" aremerely occupied by Arabs. The same pricniple applies to Arabs as it does to Jews. However, there is a very distinct difference in that Arabs live as the majority in 25 nations plus Gaza and the PA.
"American-European Settlements.": This is a huge myth. The majority of the 270,000 Jews living in YESHA ("WB") are of Mizrachi and/or Sephardic descent. Just because one sees a Jew in Charedi clothing does not mean that they are Ashkenazi although THAT makes no difference. Ashkeanzi are Jews just as much as the most Mizrachi Jew. Both share a much cloer relationship (genetically) to one another than any other outside population and this is irrefutable scientifically (closest non-Jewish genetic pool being the Kurdi). IF ALL came from Brooklyn, Blesss them because itis THEIR homeland, not an Arab's. Who calls Hebron "al Khalil"? Not even most Arabs. Mah'sah'dah is not an Arab relic, nor is Shilo or the Herodium, and so on.
The "route" is based on scientific data Tangent. The propensity of attacks emanating from a particular area is what determines its route, not Arab olive groves OR "Settlements." To suggest an entity that has led more than a 96% drop in fatal terrorist attacks is "oppressive" is a form of oppression itself. I could not care less that ANYONE must wait so many minutes to pick olives when I and my children can live with a 96% greater chance at a natural lifespan.
AGAIN, IF Arabs wish for it to disappear it s very, very, very simple: STOP THE violence. The Barrier is not based upon a supposition that Arabs are engaging in MLK type non-violent resistance but that Arabs are trying to bomb Israelis out of existence.
LEt me ask you a question and please answer honestly as i know you always do: IF you lived in a nighbourhood plauged by IRA bombings, and a Barrier was erected that caused people from an Irish neighbourhood to wait 45 minutes to get to their jobs or schools but also led to a 96% drop in deadly bombings, would you be so opposed to the Barrier? It is not a cheapshot to ask you as a parent or even simply as a human being, it is a rational and highly sensible analogy. So then, as I aksed, would you be complaining?
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
.
I will take a wild guess and imagine that you are a dual ID poster. Whatever. Grow up.
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
Nope.
Your post was very provocative and unpleasant. Mine was OTT so I depostified it.
Carry on.
Fair enough and I respect that.
I also would like to say that although I definitely stand behind my comments about both the senile old biddy as well as the lying synchophant poodle of terrorists Omer, Tangent is perhaps one of the fairest posters on the site and in rereading the refrenced post of mine denigrating Tanget for posting that piece I find that I rue attacking Tangent. I often call people out on incivility and in that post I cetainly was far less than civil to Tangent.
I also would like to say that although I definitely stand behind my comments about both the senile old biddy as well as the lying synchophant poodle of terrorists Omer, Tangent is perhaps one of the fairest posters on the site and in rereading the refrenced post of mine denigrating Tanget for posting that piece I find that I rue attacking Tangent. I often call people out on incivility and in that post I cetainly was far less than civil to Tangent.
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
Careful you mad bastard! You're heading for a hug!!!
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I have edited your post as it rambles and fails to address any of my points. Your post is yet more of the same: an anti-Palestinian screed that draws heavily on myth and emotional blackmail.
This is fairly typical
Have you heard of how the Brits allowed the immigrant Jews to exterminate entire Arab villages?
Chainsaw: "Heading for a hug...": Hahahah. I wish. In this forum that would probably be the only way to disarm someone!
Nino: "Has Rachamim heard how the Brits allowed Jews to exterminate entire Arab villages?": Nope, never heard that one because it never happened. Jews did commit at least one atrocity against an Arab village, Deir Yassin...although it was nowhere as bad as claimed and that comes from survivors themselves who say those killed were Arab terrorists and their collaborators but that DOES NOT excuse what happened. It merely offers a correct context.
Yassin happened at a time when the Brits were just about out of the Manadate, as per the Ratification of the Partition.
So, you have one village that you could agrue with, but Brits did not allow it. Brits protected Arabs. They took 70% of the entire Mandate and gave it to a family from Arabia!!! That was an equal opportunity screw of both Jew and Arab (other than Arabian Arabs of course) in the Mandate but they also allowed at least 4 Jewish villages to be exterminated, and allowed hundreds of fatal outbursts including Nabi Musa which iniated the whole Arab on Jewish violence in 1920.
With Arab violence against Jews, Brits were there from the absolute beginning and did nothing but make Jews more miserable. To hell with the Brits. I am sure that will go over lovely here.
Nino: "Has Rachamim heard how the Brits allowed Jews to exterminate entire Arab villages?": Nope, never heard that one because it never happened. Jews did commit at least one atrocity against an Arab village, Deir Yassin...although it was nowhere as bad as claimed and that comes from survivors themselves who say those killed were Arab terrorists and their collaborators but that DOES NOT excuse what happened. It merely offers a correct context.
Yassin happened at a time when the Brits were just about out of the Manadate, as per the Ratification of the Partition.
So, you have one village that you could agrue with, but Brits did not allow it. Brits protected Arabs. They took 70% of the entire Mandate and gave it to a family from Arabia!!! That was an equal opportunity screw of both Jew and Arab (other than Arabian Arabs of course) in the Mandate but they also allowed at least 4 Jewish villages to be exterminated, and allowed hundreds of fatal outbursts including Nabi Musa which iniated the whole Arab on Jewish violence in 1920.
With Arab violence against Jews, Brits were there from the absolute beginning and did nothing but make Jews more miserable. To hell with the Brits. I am sure that will go over lovely here.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I don't expect you to offer anything other than more lies and obfuscation. Here, you perform another sidestep. Bravo. 
Nino: Thank you for the usual compliment.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
It's not a compliment nor is an "insult". It's the truth. 
Nino: "It is the truth.": Or at least your version of it. Thanks for sharing. NEXTTTTtttttt.....
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Wriggle away.
Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle...
Gmart
Well-Known Member
You accept the right of people to have a different viewpoint which must be respected!!!!!!!
Stop the Press!!
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