Gaza Aid Boat Rammed by Israeli Navy in International waters

[cesare]

hmm - we got bigger boats than that going up and down the St. Lawrence.

Nice pic of the boat - ta!!!

btw - I'm not the only looking to get aid into Gaza using a boat. Maybe you could address your research to someone who feels this is a good idea.

I'm not sure that equating what's possible to charter and insure for a trip to the Gaza coastline, with what sails up and down the St. Lawrence does your point any favours y'know.

There's a solidarity/morale aspect to making these attempts. Do you think that has no value?

 

[tangentlama]

First, I'm a she and not a he.

Second of all, I'm not the one trying to get food into the area with a boat.

Third, could you please just put me on ignore. It will make life easier for both of us.

Perhaps if you would re-read the thread you would find your 'concerns' have already been addressed, countless times.

Also, the aid boat is not taking food, it is taking medical supplies .

 

[spring-peeper]

Perhaps if you would re-read the thread you would find your 'concerns' have already been addressed, countless times.

Also, the aid boat is not taking food, it is taking medical supplies .

Apologies for my use of the word "food". My dyslexia is now at the point where entire words and phrases get substituted and moved around, not just the letters. Posting here tends to help a bit - slows the deteriation down somewhat.

Also, I can't bear to go back re-read the thread.

Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions for me. I really do appreciate it.

 

[tangentlama]

There's a solidarity/morale aspect to making these attempts.

That is very true. This aid-team made the first contact by sea since 1967 since occupation began.

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/YSAR-7N9M8G?OpenDocument

 

[_float_]

So this is purely an in-your-face-israel thing and not a legit attempt to ease the suffering. OK then, thanks for sorting that out for me.

Just because it is a drop in the ocean, doesn't mean it isn't "legitimate":

Even if the aid only saves 10 lives, for those ten people saved from death the aid will be far more than symbolic.

The point is that it is *also* symbolic - possibly even more so because it is so insufficient.

You are coming across as if you really don't give a shit that people are dying and other people are trying to help them by taking aid.

 

[_float_]

Third, could you please just put me on ignore. It will make life easier for both of us.

Putting people on ignore can have the result that threads resemble listening to just one side of a telephone conversation, and turn into nonsense. It only really works for people who are mindlessly spamming and noone else is debating with, since the removal of this stuff from a thread has no real impact.

 

[spring-peeper]

Just because it is a drop in the ocean, doesn't mean it isn't "legitimate":

Even if the aid only saves 10 lives, for those ten people saved from death the aid will be far more than symbolic.

The point is that it is *also* symbolic - possibly even more so because it is so insufficient.

You are coming across as if you really don't give a shit that people are dying and other people are trying to help them by taking aid.

Not too sure what you mean by "legitimate".

I'm sorry that you are interpreting this as not caring. I do - very, very much so. I know what it is like to sit and wait for help, to have your children huddled around knowing that their lives depend on someone finding us and giving us the one the we needed most - water. But I digress.

That is an awful amount of aid that they are carrying and, imo, a drop in the bucket doesn't do it justice. I'd hate to any amount of aid being wasted - and that is what will happen if this boat gets sunk.

I hope they make it, but I really doubt it

eta: By legitimate, do you mean that it's an honest attempt to deliver aid? If so, then I do think it's a legitmate attempt to help reduce the suffering. Do I think it is wise to play "chicken" with the Israel navy while carrying these suppiles and doctors? Not so much.

 

[spring-peeper]

Putting people on ignore can have the result that threads resemble listening to just one side of a telephone conversation, and turn into nonsense. It only really works for people who are mindlessly spamming and noone else is debating with, since the removal of this stuff from a thread has no real impact.

Mindless spamming such as demanding that I rent a boat and posting up pictures about it????

 

[laptop]

And they're off again.

Statement this morning

Hour-by-hour position fixes

 

[Dimitris]

Yes they are off this time, as a mechanical problem delayed them a bit. They are 2 less now I think though as the 2 greek MPs finally did not decide to continue.

Free Gaza Movement had asked the greek government to officially contact Israel and inform them about the shipment and its safety. The greek government had contacted the Israeli one about this shipment and the answer of Israel was "we will do whatever it takes in order to stop this shipment". There is an info that the greek ministry of foreighn affairs contacted "Arion" after this and told them that "Israel will try to stop you, you travel at your own risk and the greek government takes no responsibility of your safety".

This is a very bad development, if true, and maybe this is the reason that the 2 MPs finally decided not to continue

 

[tangentlama]

And they're off again.

Statement this morning

Hour-by-hour position fixes

I wait with baited breath . . . they're almost halfway there

 

[obanite]

Godspeed to them.

 

[tangentlama]

I was quite worried as there had been no word for 1hr 20mins. A new 'spot' just came in 15 mins ago.
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0T9vIzDuqKd7Vz8WiSrZ73HnzaASECQS1

 

[tangentlama]

The aid boat is making good speed. Last update 15 mins ago.

Click this link to view their progress
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0T9vIzDuqKd7Vz8WiSrZ73HnzaASECQS1

 

[tangentlama]

Another spot at 12:27. Another hour and they should be pulling level due West with border of Lebanon & Israel
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0T9vIzDuqKd7Vz8WiSrZ73HnzaASECQS1

 

[Dimitris]

At 2:30 in the morning, greek time, Arion was surrounded by 3 israeli war ships about 100 miles far from Gaza, in international waters. They contacted Arion with radio and demanded that it should return to Larnaka, Cyprus, because it was in a sealed area. Arion replied that they were in international waters and the israeli warships had no right to block them there and continued its route, decreasing its speed. Arion also demanded that israel should create a safe route for them towards Gaza.

The reply of the israeli warships was that they would prevent them from this trip, even if it was in international waters. For the next 2 hours, Arion was continuing its trip with decreased speed, but with 5 warships surrounding it.

On 4:25 in the morning, Arion was contacted again by the israeli warships, and warned that they would be shot if they continued. Arion continued its root. 5 minutes later an another israeli official again contacted Arion demanding from them to leave or they would be shot. Arion ignored that as well, and an israeli warship then tried to ram the boat. The captain of Arion managed to move on time and avoid the attack, but then the boat was out of its route. It was then surrounded by 5 or 6 israeli ship, and was warned for a final time to leave the area immediately.

The people in Arion all that time, they were discussing of what to do. They were defendless in the middle of the sea, with 6 warships surrounding them and a few more in radar range, they had just managed to avoid a ram attempt and were sure that if they would continue, that they would get attacked again. Therefore they decided to return back to Larnaka.


The initial idea of the people in Arion, was to reach about 25 miles from Gaza, where Gaza domestic waters start, and if they would get blocked by Israeli warships at that time, to go to Egypt and from there to decide how to approach Gaza. Israel though blocked them much earlier, during the night, about 100 miles far from Gaza, in international waters.

During the night, Arion crew members with satelite phones had contacts with greek radio and TV channels and broadcasted what was happening on that time.

 

[cesare]

I hope that entire discussion was broadcasted on the airwaves.

 

[_float_]

I can't understand why the Israeli's don't do it in a more "legal" manner by:

a) waiting until they cross into territorial waters (12 nautical miles).
b) drawing alongside in a small high speed RIB and boarding them.
c) giving some 'normal' excuse such as lack of import permits, visas or other paperwork.

...ie what any other country's coast-guard/customs/immigration would do

*RIBs look like this:

 

[Spion]

So, a boat carrying medical supplies was shot at menaced by several armed vessels and made to turn around. It's the Israeli state's armed bullying in microcosm

 

[Spion]

a) waiting until they cross into territorial waters (12 nautical miles).

It's very debateable whether the boat would ever be in Israeli territorial waters because it is an occupying power in Gaza

 

[Dimitris]

http://www.tvxs.gr/v3440

A first video, from Arion, can be seen on this url. We cannot actually see much, because they had killed the lights in order not to be easily seen by the Israeli navy. During the first few minutes you can see the cameraman, filming some lights at a distance, these were the Israeli war ship.

This is the first contact that Arion had with the Israeli navy, at about 2:30. 3 Israeli war ships from a distance, surrounded Arion and demanded them to return to Larnaka. You can listen to the radio conversation, you can also listen to the Israeli officials on the radio, but unfortunately not very clear. What you listen the most of the time, is the greek men on board talking with their satelite phones back in Athens, describing what was happening ... About 2 minutes before the end of the video, they also pick up one more war ship on their radar, so they are then surrounded by 4 of them.

Hopefully more videos will come forward.

 

[Spion]

http://www.tvxs.gr/v3440

A first video, from Arion, can be seen on this url. We cannot actually see much, because they had killed the lights in order not to be easily seen by the Israeli navy. During the first few minutes you can see the cameraman, filming some lights at a distance, these were the Israeli war ship.

This is the first contact that Arion had with the Israeli navy, at about 2:30. 3 Israeli war ships from a distance, surrounded Arion and demanded them to return to Larnaka. You can listen to the radio conversation, you can also listen to the Israeli officials on the radio, but unfortunately not very clear. What you listen the most of the time, is the greek men on board talking with their satelite phones back in Athens, describing what was happening ... About 2 minutes before the end of the video, they also pick up one more war ship on their radar, so they are then surrounded by 4 of them.

Hopefully more videos will come forward.

Hmmm, doesn't work for me. All I get is a greyed out page with unclickable buttons

 

[Dimitris]

it works I tried it again just now... Tvxs is a news site, it has the video at the beginning and a text follows...

They have occasionally problems as the traffic on tvxs is pretty big maybe you should reload?

You need flash player for the video.

 

[tangentlama]

works fine for me.

 

[Spion]

I got it now