Gandhi, Big fat racist or not?

[Magnus McGinty]

There will be a new Gulag to reform the pompous and well-fed with tough love, comrade.

Glad to hear it.

(Joking, Butchers)

 

[mx wcfc]

and i ahve no idea how that attachment got there

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I'm going to get slaugherted for this, but my experience is that my hindu F-i-L is really really islamophobic. He really really hates muslims. That might be a result of colonial conditioning, i dont know. I just think it's shit and he's a cunt.

I have a Sikh colleague who borders on Islamophobia but what irks him the most is twats calling him Bin Laden etc.

 

[mx wcfc]

I have a Sikh colleague who borders on Islamophobia but what irks him the most is twats calling him Bin Laden etc.

well, yeah, the ignorance that sikhs have had to put up with is horrific, every dipshit racist wanker assumes they are an islamic terrorist and doesn't know the difference.

 

[Libertad]

We learn from history that we do not learn from history.

 

[tim]

well, yeah, the ignorance that sikhs have had to put up with is horrific, every dipshit racist wanker assumes they are an islamic terrorist and doesn't know the difference.

Yes nobody remembers the spectaculars Sikh terrorism from the 1980's not only did they manage to top the aforementioned Indira, they also carried out the deadliest act of aviation terrorism prior to11/9: the blowing up of the Air India 182 in June 1985. If it hadn't been behind schedule it would have come down more or less over my home town.


Air India Flight 182 - Wikipedia

 

[JHE]

I really do despair at times. We cannot and should not judge happenings in the past by the standards of today.

To do otherwise is utterly ludicrous. You rather expect it in the fetid and callow milieu of student politics, but not amongst adults who should know better.

If it is impossible to judge anything in the past, it is daft to have statues of any historical figure. Why have statues of, say, Attlee or Churchill rather than Hitler or Stalin? Who are we to think Wilberforce or Gandhi or Lincoln or Martin Luther King were good or Pol Pot or Vlad the Impaler or Mohammed were bad?

Mind you, I see your post was made several hours ago, so how can I judge it? Perhaps bonkers relativism was wise at three o'clock this afternoon, even though it seems wrong-headed now.

 

[tonysingh]

We named our daughter Indira. She's half indian, so we thought it was a reasonable start - you know - english surname, indian first name. we sought of thought that was cool. and sort of naming her after a woman who had led her country etc, years before thatcher seemed liked a good thing... Turned out that her indian grandad hated Indira Ghandi (bugger sp?) almost as much as he hates muslims. But hey ho.

I'm sorry but that really is quite funny.

I have a Sikh colleague who borders on Islamophobia but what irks him the most is twats calling him Bin Laden etc.

I get called "fat bin Laden" semi regularly.

well, yeah, the ignorance that sikhs have had to put up with is horrific, every dipshit racist wanker assumes they are an islamic terrorist and doesn't know the difference.

I'm a gora Sikh, I'm fairly insulated but it shouldn't be that way.

 

[mx wcfc]

I'm sorry but that really is quite funny.



I get called "fat bin Laden" semi regularly.



I'm a gora Sikh, I'm fairly insulated

I'm just a gora, but hey ho.

and I do get it. when i had a sikh g/f I had to hide in the bedroom for hours sometimes, when relatives came round unexpected.

 

[tonysingh]

I'm just a gora, but hey ho.

and I do get it. when i had a sikh g/f I had to hide in the bedroom for hours sometimes, when relatives came round unexpected.

Actually, reading my comment back, I think it came across clumsily. Apologies for that.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Racism is racism, regardless of when it happened. It may not have been as unacceptable back then but that doesn't negate the fact.

Correct. However, at that time it was not perceived to be unusual speech. No one is saying that it was right, but you cannot judge Gandhi's words by today's standards. Standards evolve over time.

 

[Serge Forward]

You can't judge Gandhi's words just by today's standards but you can judge them by fairly general humanitarian standards that have been around for quite a while. All the rest is relativistic bollocks. As for Churchill, you'll find that cunt was more harshly judged in his own time than by the rose tinted patriotic idiots of today.

 

[ska invita]

I don't think there's any doubt at all that as a young man in South Africa he looked down on Africans and was angered by Indians being treated as if they were no better than Africans.

It is claimed, however, that in maturity he changed his ideas on Africans, but I don't know what evidence there is for this.

Thats exactly my understanding of it, but likewise not sure what concrete evidence there is of it.
Its a shame because I think stories of individuals challenging and overcoming their own racism, particularly as a result of a positive political process, should be better known and celebrated.
Malcolm X is another parallel case, where from what i gather he eventually moved on from his ethno-separatism to a more universal position, and basically lost his life for so doing.
How do you get racist people to stop being racist? Having some examples of people who've done it (in such a dramatic shift) is really useful i think