Gameswipe - Charlie Brooker

[kyser_soze]

TBH tho AW, like me you're not the biggest fan of sandbox-style games.

Plus, I found the original Driver a pile of pus, and thoroughly underserving of it's classic status.

 

[Gingerman]

Bought back a few memories,sex crime was a bit,the contributers were good value as well,that Fiddy game did looked like a charmless piece of shit.

 

[Awesome Wells]

that's not entirely true; i do like sandbox games, i think they are a great idea it's just they tend to run out of steam. I like gta it's just that i've never been compelled to get my jollies just running people over, stabbing prossies or killing coppers. It'd be nice to see a sandbox that offered something a bit different to endless opportunities to kill mofos. GTA4's problem though was that it tried to shoehorn in a multipayer aspect that was crap and thus the singleplayer lacked the kind of depth that san andreas had.

 

[skyscraper101]

TBH tho AW, like me you're not the biggest fan of sandbox-style games.

He mentioned this term 'sandbox' last night. It was the first time I'd heard it and it instantly appealed to me. I just looked it up on wiki and it says

In a game with a sandbox mode, a player may turn off or ignore game objectives, or have unlimited access to items

I like the idea of this. I'm not really into shooting up people or driving round completing 'missions' but I like the idea of just fucking around and exploring infinite fantasy possibilities and interacting in a city or world in an endless way. Especially if there are various other individual things going on which like in real life, you'll only encounter if you're in the right place at the right time and make it happen. It would be nice to be able to kill people too, but only if I wanted to.

I'm going to go back and watch that bit on the iplayer to see what games he was talking about but do you know any GOOD ones that I might be interested in. I appreciate its not really your cup of tea, but it may be something at least from the games world that interests me. The only thing I've ever really gotten into in the last 10 years was Rez. And that was probably more to do with the music and it being a great game to play in certain states of mind.

 

[kyser_soze]

The thing is tho, in all the sandbox games you still have specific missions and shit you have to complete to unveil different parts of the story; in GTA, for example, you can fuck off on as many personal massacres of people on the beach or whore-beating shenanigans as you like, but if you want to play through the game you still have to complete a set of missions.

My other beef is that I fucking hate having to interact with NPCs in dialogue and stuff. The comments Grahem Linehan made about game scripting being shite were spot on. It's one of the reasons I got fuck-bored of fallout - tons and tons of the game is dialogue sub-menus, and it might look wonderful and be amazingly atmospheric - I don't care. It still feels like I'm typing 'Open the green door' into the text parser in 'The Hobbit'.

Good examples tho are things like the GTA & Fallout series (despite what i said about it, everyone else seems to think it's a good game)

 

[Awesome Wells]

One of the big problems of games like Fallout is that where you can make a moral choice as to how your character behaves - is he a goodie or a baddie - is a poor illusion because the storyline can only go one way and is predisposed toward being 'good', and that being bad often means not being bad, as such, just being a twat. This is why Fable fails utterly; games really can't simulate this sort of stuff. Ufnrotunately no one seems to have told Peter Molyneux .

 

[kained&able]

One of the big problems of games like Fallout is that where you can make a moral choice as to how your character behaves - is he a goodie or a baddie - is a poor illusion because the storyline can only go one way and is predisposed toward being 'good', and that being bad often means not being bad, as such, just being a twat. This is why Fable fails utterly; games really can't simulate this sort of stuff. Ufnrotunately no one seems to have told Peter Molyneux .

see thats really not true with fallout. You don't have to be a complete cock to become a baddie but lets face its if your going to be a baddie why not be a complete cock at the same time. Its fun!


dave

 

[subversplat]

I've not had a bash at FO3 yet but in the first two it covered being bad, and the reactions of it, pretty well. You had to finish the games because it's about self preservation at the end of the day but when you're known about town as a child murdering prostitute mafioso then certain doors are pretty much closed to you

I'd imagine it'd be a lot harder in the full-blown 3D fest though. Fallouts 1 and 2 were pretty basic graphics wise, even considering when they were made (1998 and 2000, iirc)

 

[kyser_soze]

See, for me that isn't anything to do with 'morality', it's just the same as trying to find your way out of maze, and that touching certain buttons will open/close different parts of the maze off - it's mechanistic, not humanistic, and to me it smacks of dishonesty. It's just a set of values on a data table that relates to how NPCs will react to you; have X value, NPC1 will react so, Y value NPC1 will do A, NPC will do B and so on...

I mean fuck, the old Steve Jackson books had greater moral quandries - do you ignore the roll of the dice if it goes against you? That's a real choice because doing so completely negates the 'game reality'.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Ufnrotunately no one seems to have told Peter Molyneux .

not for lack of trying

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/346-Fable-2

 

[kained&able]

there is an element of that certainly but nothing is closed off to you no matter what choice you make. You just have to do things very differently to achieve the same ends. Most characters you meet will react differently to you depending on your rep, which is quite nicely done.(other then a few very niave people)

It doesn't feel like a values table as such, its by no means perfect but it is starting to feel a bit more organic.


dave

 

[skyscraper101]

So are there any games at all where I can just walk about doing random stuff like buying a coffee or sitting on a beach or doing the gardening or whatever... and then if I wanted to at the same time I could be a crazed lunatic killing people and end up being on the run from the cops like in real life? That would be fun.

 

[kyser_soze]

Yeah, GTA will allow you to do that.

And maybe there's a mad axeman plug in for 2nd life or The Sims.

I will look into that Africa thing tho - that does sound like good, clean fun!

 

[jannerboyuk]

So are there any games at all where I can just walk about doing random stuff like buying a coffee or sitting on a beach or doing the gardening or whatever... and then if I wanted to at the same time I could be a crazed lunatic killing people and end up being on the run from the cops like in real life? That would be fun.

The neighbour simulator! Oh hang on that one was made up. Damn.

 

[Nine Bob Note]

Could do better.

It's a one off programme, so why dedicate a sizeable chunk of it to some 50cent shit game that he hates and that I, for one, have never heard of?

He didn't even mention Dizzy, the fiend!

 

[subversplat]

Err ooops. He did show Treasure Island Dizzy while going on about eggs. Briefly!

 

[Stigmata]

Could do better.

It's a one off programme, so why dedicate a sizeable chunk of it to some 50cent shit game that he hates and that I, for one, have never heard of?

He didn't even mention Dizzy, the fiend!

Cos he's more entertaining when he's slagging stuff off.

 

[Dandred]

I take it that was just a one off.

A bit meh really. About 80% of it was just about how TV looks at games.

I was expecting more for some reason.

 

[5t3IIa]

Suck it!
No, don't

 

[Sesquipedalian]

Watched it last night on IPlayer.
Enjoyed it.
Thought Dara O'Briains contribution was excellent.

Lets have more please.

 

[tar1984]

This was great. Lots of good nostalgia. It was funny when he was ripping into the 50cent game too.

 

[kained&able]

Thought Dara O'Briains contribution was excellent.

Apart from him missing the point of gta entirely! Waiting in traffic??? what??? I think he means speeding past them all straight down the middle and then swiping someone as they switch lanes for no apparent reason trying to control the spin and carrying on!

Surely?


dave

 

[Dandred]

Apart from him missing the point of gta entirely! Waiting in traffic??? what??? I think he means speeding past them all straight down the middle and then swiping someone as they switch lanes for no apparent reason trying to control the spin and carrying on!

Surely?


dave

Wasn't he on about one mission were you can't get a police rating?


dan

 

[gosub]

That program could not have been more me if it wanted to, right down to yellow & blue edit wipes. probably have C64 types whinging

Still its FRIDAY!

 

[kained&able]

Wasn't he on about one mission were you can't get a police rating?


dan

Don't remember there being a mission like that to be honest and that not what i understood.

Even if it was though unless you clip a cop car or dont slow down for the toll you can't get a police rating for driving like a tosser.


dave

 

[Dandred]

That program could not have been more me if it wanted to, right down to yellow & blue edit wipes. probably have C64 types whinging

Still its FRIDAY!

Why no Dizzy?

 

[gosub]

I got very nostalgic looking at those old Spectrum games, and seeing old Jeff Minter's Llamasoft getting a look in. I'd be happy if they would dedicate a whole series just to the 1982-1986 era; the rise and demise of Imagine software, Speccy va Commodore 64, the developments little UK companies like Ultimate/Rare made etc... oh thems were the days when any kid could code a silly game and get a contract with a major software company.

First time I passed through Ashby de la Zouche on the grand union a few years stopped to look round the home of Ulitmaate whose new adverts were cause for excitement as a kid. Rare - is that what Ocean became?

Thought Dermot's comments were good, never really thought about it before, but back in the day (especially since they had JSW) we had POKE lists and they drove games magazine sales progably more than sample cassettes...

 

[gosub]

Why no Dizzy?

you mean spin dizzy or are you reffing ?

 

[Sesquipedalian]

Apart from him missing the point of gta entirely! Waiting in traffic??? what??? I think he means speeding past them all straight down the middle and then swiping someone as they switch lanes for no apparent reason trying to control the spin and carrying on!

Surely?


dave

Yep,does not deserve to see the whole city.
And failing to get past the Beserker ! in Gears of War.
Guess he does not play much but he had me in stitches.
(maybe he was just taking the piss.)

 

[Sesquipedalian]

Wasn't he on about one mission were you can't get a police rating?


dan

I think he meant the Vlad mission.
(Killing Vlad.)