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Galloway vs. Hitchens Debate

Yes, MC5, I wasnt really refering to the present climate, but to what should have happened instead of war (which CH supported from the off).

As for what can be done in the pressent climate, i think all sides would like to see as peaceful a solution as possible, as quickly as possible. Ultimately, whether US likes it or not it will be up to Iraqi's (by majority) to decide that future. However the amount of difference of opinion about that future (including US interests) can only mean that the bloodshed will continue and continue... I can't see any defence of the invasion as being justifiable in this context.

As for the main point of resitance/liberation, I think it is hard to know just who is fighting in Iraq and for what cause - there are many groups with many aims - but I think I agree that to talk of a unified resistance movement is misleading, and I think GG does tend to give off this misleading signal quite often.
 
niksativa said:
Yes, MC5, I wasnt really refering to the present climate, but to what should have happened instead of war (which CH supported from the off).

As for what can be done in the pressent climate, i think all sides would like to see as peaceful a solution as possible, as quickly as possible. Ultimately, whether US likes it or not it will be up to Iraqi's (by majority) to decide that future. However the amount of difference of opinion about that future (including US interests) can only mean that the bloodshed will continue and continue... I can't see any defence of the invasion as being justifiable in this context.

As for the main point of resitance/liberation, I think it is hard to know just who is fighting in Iraq and for what cause - there are many groups with many aims - but I think I agree that to talk of a unified resistance movement is misleading, and I think GG does tend to give off this misleading signal quite often.
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I also can't see any justification for the invasion of Iraq and this is where I part company with Hitchens. Your last paragraph sums up Galloways absurd rhetoric when he talks about a 'war of liberation'.
 
Just watched the debate-and i thought Galloway won easily-Hitchens started off ok but seemed to become more nervous and incoherent as it progressed-especially when the discussion turned to New Orleans.

Galloway whatever his faults is an excellent public speaker (though early on in the debate was a bit shouty but calmed down when he realised hed won the argument) and Hitchens is at best an ex-liberal Bush apologist.
I cant imagine that Hitchens would agree to a re-match after that mauling.
 
Hitchens won hands down. Galloway subscribes to the bang the lecturn and shout at the audience school of argument, a bloke called Hitler used to do the same. His argument was ludicrous. We shouldn't got to war because it might annoy some maniacs and they might come to get us, blah, blah, blah... Try as he might he couldn't shake off the fact that he appeared to be very cosy with old Saddam on the TV. Hitchens on the other hand made cogent points, did not rely on brow beating his opponent and does not have a record of taking tea with mass murderers.
 
pdxm said:
Hitchens won hands down. Galloway subscribes to the bang the lecturn and shout at the audience school of argument, a bloke called Hitler used to do the same. His argument was ludicrous. We shouldn't got to war because it might annoy some maniacs and they might come to get us, blah, blah, blah... Try as he might he couldn't shake off the fact that he appeared to be very cosy with old Saddam on the TV. Hitchens on the other hand made cogent points, did not rely on brow beating his opponent and does not have a record of taking tea with mass murderers.
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So speaking about politics passionately means you are the new Hitler. Hmm.

Hitchens does seem to have praised Bush and Blair recently, which means he hardly has an unblemished record when it comes to mass murderers.
 
pdxm said:
Hitchens won hands down. Galloway subscribes to the bang the lecturn and shout at the audience school of argument, a bloke called Hitler used to do the same. His argument was ludicrous. We shouldn't got to war because it might annoy some maniacs and they might come to get us, blah, blah, blah... Try as he might he couldn't shake off the fact that he appeared to be very cosy with old Saddam on the TV. Hitchens on the other hand made cogent points, did not rely on brow beating his opponent and does not have a record of taking tea with mass murderers.
Click to expand...
WTF!
Were you watching the same debate?
Hitchens was falling apart during the second half of that "spectacle"-he was profusely sweating and not really answering any points at all.

Perhaps Galloway does bang the lectern a bit too much but at least he makes his points -and correct points in my opinion.

And about "it might annoy some maniacs and they might come to get us"-its absolutely true.
Thanks to the US and UK invasion of Iraq ,Iraq is now the new Afghanistan-Al Qaeda is now directing all its efforts into Iraq.

The anti -American resistance is becoming merged with AQ -witness the huge upsurge of suicide bombings-mainly Iraqi suicide bombers now.
 
rebel warrior said:
So speaking about politics passionately means you are the new Hitler. Hmm.

Hitchens does seem to have praised Bush and Blair recently, which means he hardly has an unblemished record when it comes to mass murderers.
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Your right, an idiotic comparison, along similar lines to Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels no less.

I would appreciate if you would link to where Hitchens has 'praised' Bush and Blair recently?
 
niksativa said:
Galloway does walk a thin line sometimes
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All the time. I agree with most of his sentiments-but the way he puts his views across serve to make him appear a total fucking wanker.
 
welshDJ said:
All the time. I agree with most of his sentiments-but the way he puts his views across serve to make him appear a total fucking wanker.
Click to expand...
er...

i'd say his wankerness goes somewhat further than mere appearance.
 
Kid_Eternity said:
Transcript is now online.
Click to expand...

Both dreadful...
In Hitchens' world:
Talabani & Barzani-- proud Kurdish democrats who tried to wipe each others' organisations civilians included in the 1990s getting help from Rafsanjani (iirc) in Iran & Saddam- and are currently ethnically segregating Kurdish areas to ensure Kirkuk oil fields are controlled by Kurds and not Turcoman Assyrians or Arabs.
Ibrahim Wahid neoliberal ex-Finance minster of Malaysian government when it had an utterly appalling human rights record gets done for corruption = democracy leader.
Walid Jumblatt leader of Lebanese Socialist party leading Lebanon into democracy who says:

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=antisemitism&ID=SP64904
It is an act of belief and it is the correct path, because the fall of one Jew, whether soldier or civilian, is a great accomplishment in times of decline, subservience, and submissiveness, as a way to undermine the plan to 'Jewify' all of Palestine.

I say 'Jew' and I apologize to the Lebanese intellectuals, or at least some of them, who welcomed the Geneva initiative, applauded it, and considered it an historical solution to the Middle East conflict. They play word games [and differentiate] between Jew and Israeli, between Right and Left, and between doves and hawks.
Click to expand...

Saad Eddin Ibrahim sociologist who was in jail for a year and a half before release supports the pro-foreign capital Wafd party---
becomes the popular moral leader of Egyptian democracy movement...

In Galloway's world: Bashir Asad hero guiding Syria to independence from France yada yada

The very worst showboating, ego-inflating nonsense in a long while.
Ignore both.
 
sihhi said:
Both dreadful...
Ignore both.
Click to expand...

I agree :cool:

Another one of these false choices that capitalism offers us, to consume spectacular politics and feel like we actually have power over our lives.
 
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