Galloway leaves Respect
- Thread starter Barking_Mad
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TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
it was the Galloway faction who were jumping with glee when John made a flippant remark about walking. they wanted SW to bugger off,and when they didn't your faction buggered off.
by the wayGeorge Galloway is welcome to join respect,as is every order member of the Galloway faction.the opposite is not true, is the Fisher?
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
it was the Galloway faction who were jumping with glee when John made a flippant remark about walking. they wanted SW to bugger off,and when they didn't your faction buggered off.
by the wayGeorge Galloway is welcome to join respect,as is every order member of the Galloway faction.the opposite is not true, is the Fisher?
Given that GG is, like it or not, the public figurehead of RESPECT, could someone from the SWP faction please explain how they can hope to survive without his public profile and so on?
As much as I'm no fan of GG, I can't see anyone from the SWP even coming near to filling his shoes.
scott_forester
probably talking shite
I'm no fan of GG but I'm looking forward to his full time media career after the next election he is very entertaining.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
The Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 introduced very strict laws regulating registered political parties, as Peter Hain has discovered to his peril
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2000/ukpga_20000041_en_1
Among a lot of other things, including strict rules on who can and cannot donate money to a registered party, this law also regulates the descriptions under which registered parties can contest elections. The SWP have discovered this recently in the case of by-elections in Leyton and Preston where they had hoped that their members would be able to run as "Respect". These candidates have no description on the ballot paper and are not able to say they are the candidates of any particular party.
In order to run in an election, the "party" has to register with the Electoral Commission. At present the registration of Respect is in limbo - the SWP control the bank account, while Linda Smith of the Renewal grouping is the nominating officer. No candidate can be nominated without the approval of Linda Smith and no candidate can incur election expenses without the SWP's approval. The result is currently stalemate. In addition no other "party" can register with a similar name to an already existing one if they object, as the Socialist Party discovered when it tried to register.
The SWP held secret negotiations to consolidate the split in Respect which included a discussion on future names for the two sides and an electoral pact to prevent either side standing against the other. But the SWP went to the capitalist press to denounce their critics within Respect, and then walked away at the last minute from the negotiations and are trying to pretend that they are the 'real' Respect.
The Renewal side has published its account of the negotiations, but the SWP have never told their membership (yet alone the readership of Socialist Worker) the true story. The SWP are trying to pretend that the SWP candidates in Preston and Leyton are "Respect candidates" but in fact this is probably illegal as it is also an offence under the act to try to pass yourself off as another party (recalling the infamous candidacy of a spoiler who stood as "Literal Democrat" in an attempt to inflict damage on the LibDems - something the Act tried to make illegal).
The SWP's situation was not helped by the fact that they secretly took an almost certainly illegal foreign donation (the infamous Dubai cheque for 10,000 dollars) to pay a debt into Respect's bank account. [While John Rees was responsible for this, three other members of the SWP Central Committee also colluded to hide this donation.] Galloway reported this donation to the Electoral Commission and they are investigating but currently have bigger fish to fry in the form of Peter Hain's similarly illegal donations over which he has been forced to resign. However this issue will not go away for the SWP.
If the SWP had wished their claim for control over Respect nominations to be carried out, they would have to go to the Electoral Commission and argued that their conference on 17th November was valid and that Linda Smith had been removed from the Respect NC and a new Nominating Officer appointed. (Contrary to claims by some in the SWP, who falsely say it would be an expensive legal battle, this actually costs nothing - they just have to write to the Electoral Commission setting out their case for the Respect name)
But the SWP are too scared to go to the Electoral Commission as they know the Commission would want to investigate the claims that the 17th November 'conference' was valid - everyone involved knows that this would not stand up to more than 5 seconds of scrutiny, the invalid student delegates being enough probably on their own, though the failure to ratify the Conference Arrangements Committee and the invalid Tower Hamlets delegation put it beyond doubt.
In fact every step the SWP take on this, including describing the SWP candidates in Preston and Leyton as "Respect candidates", something they have now stopped doing, takes the SWP into deeper difficulties with the Electoral Commission.
So in terms of the forthcoming elections, Lindsey German will be in trouble if she tries to describe herself as "Respect candidate" and incur expenses under that name. The only effective solution is negotiations with Renewal for an agreed seperation. The SWP are still trying to hide the invitability of that from their members and the readers of Socialist Worker.
In terms of the GLA, discussions on standing a wider slate predate the split when it was known that the RMT were interested in contesting. Rees, as usual, made a typical SWP hamfisted intervention and managed to thoroughly piss off the RMT. Galloway wrote an article in the Morning Star back in November supporting a broader slate, and the Respect NC members who support Renewal have asked him to see if the basis for such a left slate exists. The suggestion is that Galloway could head this slate, though it has been made clear that this is not a precondition or agreed yet - just an idea as a basis for discussions.
Any slate contesting the elections would need to register with the Electoral Commission, agree a name with then ... and make sure it did not take any money from Dubai! The SWP used to be registered but withdrew their registration. If they reregister so they can stand German as SWP, they would have to submit their accounts and membership numbers to public scrutiny of course
Expect things to continue to unravel over the next few weeks ...
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
So "flippant" that the SWP Central Committee held two meetings at the offices of a trusted third party and arranged for a third meeting to be held, all to negotiate a split.
Are you denying that these meetings took place? What is your basis for disputing that fact? Have you been told by the SWP Central Committee that these negotiations did not happen?
As usual this is the usual crap. In Wales for example Forward Wales stood their candidates in the Assembly elections as independent, some of them even mentioned they were members of Forward Wales in their literature. Despite complaints from some mainstream parties, the electoral commission took no action. Therefore feasibly a respect candidate could stand as independent/no party and still mention that they were a member of respect. Another case in point, is Blaenau Gwent people's voice, who stood for the Assembly elections. A couple of candidates stood in other areas as people's voice, but couldn't be prevented as the name wasn't registered.
JHE
.
Thanks for the warning!
Yes, stand as al-Dot or al-Blank, but in the leaflets mention that your candidate is "a member of" al-Respeq. Good plan there, look you.
I don't know why you bother. Islamo-Trottery hasn't really won many votes in Wales, with or without the disputed name, has it?
You might as well develop a bit of honesty and stand as Daft Islamophile Trots. You could be known as the Dittos.
a tale of two respects
http://www.respectrenewal.org/content/view/145/1/
http://www.respectcoalition.org/?ite=1736
http://www.respectrenewal.org/content/view/145/1/
http://www.respectcoalition.org/?ite=1736
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Thanks - that's what I said.
It is perfectly legal to describe yourself as a member of a party while standing as independent or no description. What is almost certainly illegal is describing yourself as a "Respect candidate", which is what I said. That's why the SWP have made sure that in their leaflets for the by-elections they do not describe themselves as the "Respect candidate". The moot question is whether all the other material, including press statements and web site information, are designed to mislead the voters into believing that they are being promoted as the "Respect candidate". rather than the SWP candidate (a non-registered party and therefore of "no description"). If that were considered to be the case, the candidate could be breaking electoral law - something the SWP have repeatedly shown a lack of awareness or interest in.
Is that the best you can do? No response to any of the other points? Pathetic!
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Oh the irony ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/04/26/respect_mayor_video_feature.shtml
"Vote for me first and Ken second" Lyndsey German 26 April 2007 being interviewed by the BBC.
Yes, it's true, the SWP have now lurched to the ultra left and now become indifferent as to a choice between Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone! Lyndsey German's article does not even mention Johnson, despite him being only one or two percent away from winning and a vicious red-baiting witch-hunt against Livingstone; nor does she mention her previous position on the need to reelect Ken over the Tory. Paul Foot and Tony Cliff must be turning in their graves - the ghost of Gerry Healy is about.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Still struggling to say anything ...? Cowardice is the refuge of someone who has lost the argument.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Fisher_Gate should ask himself why it will be a close contest between Livingstone and Boris? The answer to this question will explain why their was near unaminity on Respect's National Council (pre-split, with the exception of Salma Yaqoob and Ger Francis) that it would be right to stand a socialist candidate against Ken Livingstone. And why it marks a shift to the right that Respect Renewal now call for a first vote for the man who encourages scabbing on picketlines and defends the murder of Jean Charles De Menezes
Lindsey German was nominated as a Respect candidate in a mass meeting at which all London members were eligible to attend. By what authority do you claim to overturn the democratic decision of the Respect membership?
Having (as you know) some sympathy with some of the arguments of the group you are part, I find it sad that you are defending Respect Renewal's sudden infatuation with the neoliberal Ken Livingstone.
For example, didn't George Galloway who is now fulsome in his support for Ken Livingstone write to the Morning Star defending standing a socialist candidate against (Not so) Red Ken a while back? His road-to-damascus conversion therefore seems a little intellectually dishonest. Indeed, the ISG/Socialist Resistance have actually said recently that they would still call for a vote for Lindsey German. Has this position changed?
We’ve been through this movie before. Wasn't a similar argument put against Ralph Nader in the last US elections. That he would allow Bush to stay in power.
At one time, Ralph Nader organised a massive campaign that mobilised and meshed in with a growing anti-globalisation mood among young people and galvanised the imagination of a layer of activists to get involved.
The next time he stood things were different.
His allies such as Michael Moore turned on him (as did other sections of the left).
A whole section of the left said we have to all mobilise for a John Kerry victory, despite Kerry being a pro-war neoliberal, and said that Nader would let Bush in.
The logic of this position was to demobilise the anti-war movement and refuse to put any pressure on Kerry. Left-Liberals & Musicians like Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon. Noam Chomsky and Patti Smith who had campaigned for Nader now fell into the "lesser-evilism", "you have to supprot Kerry to stop Bush" mode. Some even attempted to claim that Kerry was anti-war and got angry if Kerry's record was criticised by those on the far left.
The result was a catastrophe for left wing politics in the USA. Bush was returned to power and the left was demoralised. Things could have been very different with a unified with a strong candidate of the left.
This is gonna be a tough year for independent, left-wing candidates. Our ideas of anti-privatisation and anti-neoliberalism can resonate with a wide layer. Whether we recognize this and use our campaigns to help build up the meager forces of a left committed to fighting oppression, war and exploitation or succumb to the pressure to chase imaginary shortcuts will determine their value.
Respect Renewal's sudden shift into the Ken Livingstone camp is a betrayal of the project of building a left alternative to Labour and a political dead-end.
It is time that the left, trade unionists and peace activists broke from the politics of supporting the supposed lesser evil and began organising in support of equality, justice and peace.
When you are on the wrong road there is no point carrying on down it. Standing a socialist candidate for Mayor points in the right direction.
Oh the bullshit....
But I and others have on countless respect style threads on U75. You are the only person digging up the same old crap over and over again, because as Udo says - you represent an intellectually bankrupt and retreating section of the left. You repeat the same garbage over and over again, as even you have trouble believing it.
But I and others have on countless respect style threads on U75. You are the only person digging up the same old crap over and over again, because as Udo says - you represent an intellectually bankrupt and retreating section of the left. You repeat the same garbage over and over again, as even you have trouble believing it.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
If Lyndsey German stands for Mayor and attacks Johnson calling clearly for a second vote for Livingstone, I would support her. The issue that I posted about is purely about whether she can describe herself as "Respect" if she does stand. So long as the SWP refuse to negotiate, she cannot. She should call herself "SWP" instead. If she refuses to call for a second vote for Livingstone, as the SWP seem to be heading in the direction of, I would have second thoughts. In any case, it matters little as the battle is between Johnson and Livingstone.
What are your thoughts on the SWP's refusal to negotiate? After nine years of work, in firstly the Socialist Alliance, and then Respect, all the SWP have to show for it, is a loss of several hundred members, a loss of a left-wing alliance with an MP and a dozen councillors, noone from organised left groups willing to work with them, and being forced to describe themselves as "no description" on the ballot paper.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
"the same old crap" - you said that you could call your SWP candidates the "Respect candidate". It is now clear you cannot. How do you feel about that? Humiliated?
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
The Socialist Unity blog has now published the letter from the Electoral Commission confirming what I have said all along - that the SWP cannot use the Respect name in elections, without negotiating with Linda Smith and Respect Renewal.
The door remains open to negotiations with the SWP. Will they swallow their pride and bluster, start a meaningful discussion, or walk away from Respect for good? Over to you comrades, the ball is firmly in your court.
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=1617
The door remains open to negotiations with the SWP. Will they swallow their pride and bluster, start a meaningful discussion, or walk away from Respect for good? Over to you comrades, the ball is firmly in your court.
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=1617
No - just pissed off with a minor irritant.They are being supported by RESPECT both on the website and by their local respect groups, and describe themselves as members of respect on their literature. If it swims like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck......then its a duck. What you have been left with on the other hand is a lame one mate
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
"Supported by Respect" - same as Craig Murray?
So, the SWP are reduced to their candidates having to stand with "no description" and reduced to saying they are "supported by Respect". And of course if you step over the line of appearing to be a "Respect candidate", as well as quacking like a duck, you'll be in breach of electoral law. Not a problem if you are going to come last. If you're in danger of winning, one of the other parties will object you have misled the voters and put in an election petition. You'd be better off standing as SWP.
And why has Carole Vincent's leaflet been removed from the SWP-Respect website if there are no problems with this then?
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Is that the sound of two bald men fighting over a comb?
Except of course they are RESPECT members standing as no description, due to the gallowayista's chucking their toys out the pram....
more bollocks again from Fisher...
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=14055
Ernie Mandel must be turning in his grave - the ghost of Monty Python is about (Splitters
)
I suspect a fair few of the bitter issues and rivalries amongst the leftist groups are fanned by MI5 agents acting within those groups.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
OMG, I don't know how you have the stamina or the interest, to continue this one track diatribe, whilst continually refusing to answer ANY questions put to you. Are you a professional politician? Once again I will answer your question. No I am not denying meeting took place after it became clear the Galloway faction wanted the SWP to leave RESPECT. However, that is my point. The Galloway faction had come to a conclusion they wanted rid of SW, hadn't they?
According to the SWP members I have spoken to, Galloway and EVERY member of the Galloway faction are welcome to take part in the discussion of every aspect of how we build RESPECT, Respect renewal do not hold the same position do they Fisher?
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