Galloway - Derek Hatton in the making?

[Fisher_Gate]

okay, I see.

I quite like the posts from Fishers gate on respect, they seem to be fair and balanced. That is why I personally would take any criticisms of respect from Fishers gate seriously. Though I don't necessarily agree with him about the form Respect should take.

I personally would not like to see SW submerge into respect. I think a revolutionary party is necessary. But a revolutionary party rooted in the class. respect is an effort to make a broad church working class type of "united front". That is why I agree with being part of respect, but I don't want to see SW submerge into respect.

Building a broad party does not mean submerging revolutionary politics. Take a look at the examples of broad parties involving revolutionary parties elsewhere in Europe:

Denmark (positive developments):
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1270

Portugal (positive developments):
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1278

Italy (example of what to do when it does not work)
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1282
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1253

and er ... of course, Germany (where the IST's section appears to be more happy in building the broader party:
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=12043

General material on building Broad Anti-Capitalist Parties:
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?mot58

 

[TremulousTetra]

Building a broad party does not mean submerging revolutionary politics. Take a look at the examples of broad parties involving revolutionary parties elsewhere in Europe:

Denmark (positive developments):
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1270

Portugal (positive developments):
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1278

Italy (example of what to do when it does not work)
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1282
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1253

and er ... of course, Germany (where the IST's section appears to be more happy in building the broader party:
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=12043

General material on building Broad Anti-Capitalist Parties:
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?mot58

could you just expand on this;

"because that would mean Respect moving away from being a coalition where people can do what they like (including the SWP)."

I would like to be able to think that the Revolutionary party could still sell its paper and build its party on a revolutionary programme. So you are not proposing these type of activities should be constrainedc? Perhaps I misunderstood you.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

could you just expand on this;

"because that would mean Respect moving away from being a coalition where people can do what they like (including the SWP)."

I would like to be able to think that the Revolutionary party could still sell its paper and build its party on a revolutionary programme. So you are not proposing these type of activities should be constrainedc? Perhaps I misunderstood you.

Certainly not - revolutionaries are perfectly entitled to sell papers and recruit to their organisation. However being involved in a broad 'party' also means being prepared to build it too, often as a practical priority. This means creating an infrastructure for the broad party and building it on a solid footing too. There is no contradiction.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Certainly not - revolutionaries are perfectly entitled to sell papers and recruit to their organisation. However being involved in a broad 'party' also means being prepared to build it too, often as a practical priority. This means creating an infrastructure for the broad party and building it on a solid footing too. There is no contradiction.

so obviously SW want to build respect, so how do you think they are inadvertently creating barriers to building respect. You don't have to repeat yourself, if you have already explained this, point me where.

 

[idiotdave]

Not that I'm that bothered but the minutes are here:

http://www.respectcoalition.org/index.php?sec=3

 

[cockneyrebel]

Not that I'm that bothered but the minutes are here:

It might help if they actually put the minutes up on that link. Unless the NC hasn't met up in the whole of 2007.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Not that I'm that bothered but the minutes are here:

http://www.respectcoalition.org/index.php?sec=3

There is only one set of minutes of the Officers group and none of the National council in the last 9 months!

I think you will find that the National Council has met since 9 September 2006 and that the Officers Group has met more than once since 4 September 2006.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

so obviously SW want to build respect, so how do you think they are inadvertently creating barriers to building respect. You don't have to repeat yourself, if you have already explained this, point me where.

Nothing inadvertent about it - the SWP see Respect of one of a number of 'united front' projects to be picked up and dropped as appropriate.

See Callinicos article here and response by Murray Smith and Alan Thornett:
http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?rubrique14
See also:
http://macuaid.blogspot.com/2007/06/routinist-and-blinkered-leadership-of.html
http://www.socialistresistance.net/respect1006.htm
http://www.socialistresistance.net/openuprespect.htm
http://www.respectpartyforum.org/

 

[TremulousTetra]

Nothing inadvertent about it - the SWP see Respect of one of a number of 'united front' projects to be picked up and dropped as appropriate.

See Callinicos article here and response by Murray Smith and Alan Thornett:
http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?rubrique14
See also:
http://macuaid.blogspot.com/2007/06/routinist-and-blinkered-leadership-of.html
http://www.socialistresistance.net/respect1006.htm
http://www.socialistresistance.net/openuprespect.htm
http://www.respectpartyforum.org/

well to be honest I have two say I wish that was Callinicos's position, as someone who isn't convinced SW's best place position would not be creating a revolutionary party, rather than respect. But I'll have a look.