Galloway an Evolution Denier

[trashpony]

Am I the only person who keeps wondering about Galloway and his choice of hosiery?

 

[Fruitloop]

Well I dunno, it pisses me off that every time there's any ethical issue mentioned in the mainstream media they have to wheel out a fucking bishop or something as if we all cared what they thought. There was one egregious example recently where they were talking about stem-cells (IIRC) where there was a politician, some pointless meeja talking head and a clergyman in full get-up, but not a scientist in sight!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Quite.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

What it says is that by and large people in this country think religion is a private, not a public issue. Reality of the religious hold over this country - are you for real?

Nonsense. Why were Brown's origins/parentage and Blair's conversion considered such important issues?

 

[kyser_soze]

By whom, the media or the general public? I didn't hear the pubs thrumming with conversation over Blair converting to Catholicism, or Broons presbeteryian upbringing. The only place it was an issue was in the media and in the world of political geekery, like this.

Well I dunno, it pisses me off that every time there's any ethical issue mentioned in the mainstream media they have to wheel out a fucking bishop or something as if we all cared what they thought. There was one egregious example recently where they were talking about stem-cells (IIRC) where there was a politician, some pointless meeja talking head and a clergyman in full get-up, but not a scientist in sight!

That's actually a rare occurence WRT stem cells - a close friend analysed stem cell coverage in their MA against coverage of other issues, and showed definitively that religious angle on the ethics side went from being 1st or 2nd paragraph to 2nd half of story - even on the stuff about chimerics.

Still, to say that there is a 'relgious hold' over the UK is bollocks.

 

[butchersapron]

The religious hold is by and large institutional - and labour have gone out of their way to make public life more religious during their term. There's a bizzare cleavage between the lack of religosity in society as a whole and the institutional structures of that same society. Religion is massively over represented in the latter despite it's relative scarcity in the former. That's surely not how it's supposed to work is it?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

...

Still, to say that there is a 'relgious hold' over the UK is bollocks.

In education the religious 'hold' is institutionalised (by law) - schools have to have 'predominantly christian' assemblies and RE lessons are compulsory ... even some of the state funded sixth form colleges and universities are run by churches. (over half of all schools in Lancashire are run by churches ... the newest university in the country - the University of Cumbria - is run by the Anglican church and a one time secular institution - the art college in Carlisle - has now been transferred to church control with barely a whimper of protest).

 

[HackneyE9]

Evolution "denier"??? Did I miss the bit where thinking Darwinism was the best answer to be getting along with but hardly likely to be the be-all-and-end-all, became synonymous with wanting to kill six million Jews?

 

[danny la rouge]

That's a bit of a leap to make Hackney. It just means he denies Evolution. (Language is a funny thing the same words can be used to treat your wife to a meal and a show, or instruct a hitman to kill her*. It doesn't make the two morally equivalent. *"Take her out").

 

[HackneyE9]

Nah, the OP knows what he means, Danny. I can't thing of any other use of *****-denier. Can you?

 

[danny la rouge]

I am the OP, and I do know what I mean. I mean he denies Evolution.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Nah, the OP knows what he means, Danny. I can't thing of any other use of *****-denier. Can you?

Tights.

 

[London_Calling]

I am the OP, and I do know what I mean. I mean he denies Evolution.

To use more a more common construct he's a Creationist, isn't he?

 

[danny la rouge]

To use more a more common construct he's a Creationist, isn't he?

He seems to be, yes.

 

[HackneyE9]

Fine. He's a creationist. Like a billion other Catholics. Get off your high-horse.

 

[glenquagmire]

It's a bit worrying that such a loon could be elected to Parliament, not to mention being championed by so-called socialists.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Fine. He's a creationist. Like a billion other Catholics. Get off your high-horse.

Not all catholics are stupid enough to deny evolution. Those that do should be ridiculed and kept as far away from sharp objects as possible.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

It's a bit worrying that such a loon could be elected to Parliament, not to mention being championed by so-called socialists.

He's not alone ...

Religious faith is concerned, has inspired and led and guided, and still does, billions and billions of people. It offers an explanation of the great unknowns; where we came from, what happens when we die, and also it provides, at its very simplest, it provides prayers and hymns and rituals which give us great security. I think anyone would be inspired by the christenings and the marriages, I particularly like funerals because you celebrate a life, a good life that has gone, these rituals are part of our culture. Not just our culture, but others who follow other religions, for then it is their culture, it is their sense of identity, and it would be very, very foolish to ignore the role that it plays.

I must confess, and I hope I don’t give offence, that I’ve never been much excited by the miracles; the walking on water, the virgin birth, the physical resurrection, have never helped me very much in my life. I have a deep respect for those who believe them. On the Mount of Olives in 1945, I saw a great big granite stone with a footprint which I was told was Jesus’ last step before he ascended to heaven. It didn’t help me live my life, but those who follow it I understand and respect. It gives comfort, it gives security, it does so much, as does today than this lovely service with the choir that we’ve been listening to.

Sermon at the Church of St Mary the Virgin on Sunday, 14 May 2006

Guess who?

 

[butchersapron]

nino?

It's obv Benn isn't it? He does cut his cloth doesn't he?

 

[danny la rouge]

Fine. He's a creationist. Like a billion other Catholics. Get off your high-horse.

Well, as I've said in the thread, I know many Catholics. I was born into that faith myself. However most of the Catholics I know personally (not all, but most) do not deny Evolution. They bring it into their world view. God created humans via the mechanism described by Darwin, they say. God created the Universe at the Big Bang, but physics and biology have described correctly what happened next. That sort of thing.

Galloway, however, is rejecting that approach. He is casting aside the evidence. He is entitled to, of course. He can believe that cars are propelled by silver pixies if he likes. But if he makes a public pronouncement, we are entitled to take that into consideration in our view of him.

 

[glenquagmire]

He's not alone ...



Guess who?

Sounds like Benn to me.

What's that got in common with denying evolution though? It's quite a leap from one to the other.

 

[cockneyrebel]

It's a bit worrying that such a loon could be elected to Parliament

That probably goes for most MPs.

 

[glenquagmire]

That is true though.

 

[Groucho]

I didn't know whether to laugh at the idea the wonders of nature are some random evolutionary accident, or cry at the failure of the human race to match even the minimum of harmony, peace and social cohesion accomplished by the penguin.

This quote does not necessarily imply support for the Creationist's denial of science at all does it?

He seems to be suggesting that evolution is not random but is subject to inteligent design. Many scientists reject atheism and incorporate their scientific understanding of evolutionary process into a notion of a grand scheme arranged by one God. Religion remains a powerful force to the extent that many in the scientific World feel they have to, in part at least, conform to the idea of a Christian God.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Sounds like Benn to me.

What's that got in common with denying evolution though? It's quite a leap from one to the other.

Believing in A Divine Force that created the Universe? That's sounds pretty loony to me ..., whether it's Benn, Galloway, Archbishop Tutu, Hugo Chavez, Blair, Brown, Paisley, or the SWP member down the road from me who says she's a christian - they're all wrong on this.

 

[glenquagmire]

They're all wrong.

But you really can't see a degree of difference between a wishy-washy liberal Christian and someone who doesn't buy into the theory of evolution by natural selection?

Sounds like an atheist equivalent of ultra-leftism to me.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

They're all wrong.

But you really can't see a degree of difference between a wishy-washy liberal Christian and someone who doesn't buy into the theory of evolution by natural selection?

Sounds like an atheist equivalent of ultra-leftism to me.

I'm not convinced that Galloway's quote puts it in the fundamentally-opposed-to-the-facts-of-evolution camp.

The problem with these god-believers is that they can express their views on the supernatural in all kinds of confused and contradictory ways. I'd rather see a more extended quote to form an opinion. Benn's Sermon is definitely in the 'barking' category but that doesn't make him a reactionary.

(BTW In the scientific community 'the theory' of evolution is a law of nature not just a theory any more.)

 

[danny la rouge]

He seems to be suggesting that evolution is not random but is subject to inteligent design.

"Intelligent Design" is creationism by another name.

I'm not convinced that Galloway's quote puts it in the fundamentally-opposed-to-the-facts-of-evolution camp.

In what circumstances would someone not opposed to the facts of Evolution "laugh at the idea the wonders of nature are some random evolutionary accident"? (Not to mention use the term "random evolutionary accident" in the first place).