Galloway Against Open Borders?

[In Bloom]

Do you know what, forget it, I'm not going to be drawn into another fruitless argument with urban75's offical pompus cunt.

 

[mk12]

Anyway it's cobblers to suggest that Galloway's anti-abortion stand in opposition to Respect's was to garner votes, despite matt believing his words are right.

You think GG is different to other politicians? YOu don't think he mentioned his views on abortion in an area where respect could be gained from holding that position?

 

[mk12]

I believe their fate was much that as described by Milton in the first part of Paradise Lost.

its posts like that that make this place what it is

 

[krtek a houby]

I also note that Hell now appears to be closed.....

Indeed. There was a serious disagreement and all hell broke loose.

 

[audiotech]

You think GG is different to other politicians? YOu don't think he mentioned his views on abortion in an area where respect could be gained from holding that position?

No to the latter and yes to the first part of your question (particularly in comparison to the vast majority of gutless Labour ones).

 

[krtek a houby]

Musta missed something. So George G is of the ruling classes now?

Gotta keep up to date!

As a left-leaning, pink-wristed, hippy-dippy kinda guy - I need to know, what is the alternative?

'cos, a dodo like me gets real tired of all the infighting. Without any viable alternative ever being offered.

Nope, GG isn't the answer, for sure but I've never ever seen anyone offer up anything different.

But then, I'm not on the forums every day. Where it ALL happens, apparently.



Slightly cynical tonight, sorry.

 

[Plastic Bathmat]

Coming from up in Scotland I've always been amazed and horrified that that wee prick's done so well for himself down here of late. The man's a corrupt little shit. One of my friends was at Glasgow Uni in the 80s and was a member of the uni Labour party. His girlfriend ended up working as Galloway's PA, and also ended up banging him. At the time he was being investigated for corruption involved with the War on Want charity, but after an investigation auditors found they didn't have enough evidence on him, reason being he'd had my mate's girlfriend shred all the relevant files. He's been accused of lots more corruption since, which I don't doubt at all. The man only cares about one person - himself; all his damning rhetoric and fiery speeches are nothing but hollow lines spat out to drag his sorry political career out further, and he disgraces everything he claims to represent.

Still - was well funny to see him piss all over the Senate sub-committee.

 

[Soul On Ice]

It is though. It's a part of the state and it fulfills a role in perpetuating the prevailing order.

Kinell you don't half see some ludicrous things on U75 if you hang around lurking on the politics threads.

Personally I detest GG and RESPECT but not in a million years would I describe them as bourgeois. If a firebrand left wing MP and a small left wing party like RESPECT are bourgeois then you seem to be saying anyone involved in politics who is not going to be classified as bourgeois needs to meet the following criteria:
- not hold any form of public political office (guess that means Tommy Sheridan is bourgeois)
- not be a member of any political party that has members who hold any public political office (that rules out Tommy again)
- not be a member of any political party, however, small, that seeks political office

So it pretty much rules everyone out apart from those who are organising for a revolution of the proletariat - and that seems to be a good way to organise politically cos there is a real groundswell of support for a revolution in the UK.

 

[In Bloom]

Kinell you don't half see some ludicrous things on U75 if you hang around lurking on the politics threads.

Personally I detest GG and RESPECT but not in a million years would I describe them as bourgeois. If a firebrand left wing MP and a small left wing party like RESPECT are bourgeois then you seem to be saying anyone involved in politics who is not going to be classified as bourgeois needs to meet the following criteria:
- not hold any form of public political office (guess that means Tommy Sheridan is bourgeois)
- not be a member of any political party that has members who hold any public political office (that rules out Tommy again)
- not be a member of any political party, however, small, that seeks political office

So it pretty much rules everyone out apart from those who are organising for a revolution of the proletariat - and that seems to be a good way to organise politically cos there is a real groundswell of support for a revolution in the UK.

Yeah, because the only possible forms of political action are electoralism, vanguardism or agitating for a revolution all the time

And yeah, that wanker Sheridan would qualify as bourgeois afaic.

 

[Soul On Ice]

Yeah, because the only possible forms of political action are electoralism, vanguardism or agitating for a revolution all the time

OK fair enough, I take your point that electoralism is not the only form of political action. But what are the realistic alternatives. I don't see any other non electoral forms of political action that significant numbers of people are willing to engage in.

And yeah, that wanker Sheridan would qualify as bourgeois afaic.

Well at least you have a consistent view. I get where you are coming from now - even if I don't agree with you. [does not use a rolleyes smiley cos thankfully In Bloom has not indulged ni pointless flaming]

 

[belboid]

And yeah, that wanker Sheridan would qualify as bourgeois afaic.

so, not rejcting bourgeoius institutions wholesale makes one bourgeois now? I presume that I am bourgeois because I am in a union (and have stood for elections within it), and obviously the heads of that union are bourgeois.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Only the anarchists want people to be free:
All of the others, we can call class enemies.

 

[In Bloom]

so, not rejcting bourgeoius institutions wholesale makes one bourgeois now?

No, being a significant part of a bourgeois institution makes one bourgeois.

I presume that I am bourgeois because I am in a union (and have stood for elections within it)

Now you're just being silly. Do you play a significant role in managing capital? Do you have a vested interest in its maintainence?

obviously the heads of that union are bourgeois.

Assuming you're talking about one of the TUC unions, it's a grey area, IMO. If they're not bourgeois, they're certainly doing the bourgeoisie's job for them

 

[In Bloom]

OK fair enough, I take your point that electoralism is not the only form of political action. But what are the realistic alternatives. I don't see any other non electoral forms of political action that significant numbers of people are willing to engage in.

Simple, mundane-seeming stuff, like workplace organisation or campaigning in your local area on issues that effect you and your community is the most important thing that can be done at the moment, IMO.

 

[belboid]

but if you include a poxy organisation like Respect within the general heading 'a part of the state and it fulfills a role in perpetuating the prevailing order' then it is ludicrous to exclude unions. Try and have a semblance of consistency!

Do I have a vested interest in the 'maintenance' of the T&G? Damn right I do, I'm a worker.

 

[In Bloom]

but if you include a poxy organisation like Respect within the general heading 'a part of the state and it fulfills a role in perpetuating the prevailing order' then it is ludicrous to exclude unions. Try and have a semblance of consistency!

There's a difference between trade unions (albiet trade unions which have effectively become a bourgeois institution in a lot of ways) and a poltical party which weilds state power.

Do I have a vested interest in the 'maintenance' of the T&G? Damn right I do, I'm a worker.

By "it" I meant capital, not the T&G.

Though the T&G is probably one of the better unions. Better than fucking USDAW anyway.

 

[belboid]

and what 'state power' does Respect wield?

 

[In Bloom]

and what 'state power' does Respect wield?

It's got an MP and seeks to have more, yes or no?

 

[belboid]

so 'hopes to' is the same as 'does'??

Not to get into what might be the attitude of varous particpant organisations within to the nature of state power

 

[In Bloom]

so 'hopes to' is the same as 'does'??

It says something about the ultimate nature of the organisation though, Respect is an organisation that seeks state power.

Not to get into what might be the attitude of varous particpant organisations within to the nature of state power

I'm not arsed about their attitudes, personally, more with their material circumstances and the social relationships inherent in those circumstances. How the fuck do "attitudes" matter?

 

[belboid]

Well there is a question of whether they really do seek 'state power' or whether they hope to be an oppositionist movement. And then there is the fact that the attitude of the SWP & IMG within Respect is that they will not gain 'state power' through bourgeois elections, and that they are merely a useful tool. Pretty basic stuff that.

Is every party that has ever stood for election equally bourgeois then?

 

[X-77]

Coming from up in Scotland I've always been amazed and horrified that that wee prick's done so well for himself down here of late. The man's a corrupt little shit. One of my friends was at Glasgow Uni in the 80s and was a member of the uni Labour party. His girlfriend ended up working as Galloway's PA, and also ended up banging him. At the time he was being investigated for corruption involved with the War on Want charity, but after an investigation auditors found they didn't have enough evidence on him, reason being he'd had my mate's girlfriend shred all the relevant files. He's been accused of lots more corruption since, which I don't doubt at all. The man only cares about one person - himself; all his damning rhetoric and fiery speeches are nothing but hollow lines spat out to drag his sorry political career out further, and he disgraces everything he claims to represent.

Still - was well funny to see him piss all over the Senate sub-committee.

That's nice, dear.

 

[In Bloom]

I've got to go to work, so I'll come back to the rest of your post later, but I just wanted to clear one thing up:

Well there is a question of whether they really do seek 'state power' or whether they hope to be an oppositionist movement.

By "state power" I didn't mean that they genuinely believe that they can acheive a parliamentary majority or something, I mean that they seek to gain a measure of the power that comes with participating in parliament.

 

[cockneyrebel]

MC5 how can you seriously say that Galloway wasn't using the abortion issue to win votes:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1461669,00.html

'I have religious beliefs and try to live by them,' Galloway tells me. 'I have all my life been against abortion and against euthanasia - in fact, on Question Time two weeks ago I was the only panellist to inveigh against the creeping euthanasia in our society. I am not surprised if my position on these issues strikes a chord.'

 

[audiotech]

MC5 how can you seriously say that Galloway wasn't using the abortion issue to win votes:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1461669,00.html

Because apparently he's been against it all his life.

I see from that article Oona King tried to undermine Galloway's position at the time of the election:

King notes of Galloway's campaign: 'His has been a calculated attempt to target one particular group, but they are the . He has come to capitalise on the resentment here ... there are young Muslim men who, especially after 11 September, are frustrated, resentful, and he is going after them.' So who will win, I ask. 'We will,' she flashes her smile.

Interestingly, at the top of that Observer article there is a correction which states:

In the article below we say that of the 120,000 Tower Hamlets constituents about 50 per cent are Muslim yet the 2001 census found only 39.16 per cent of the population of Bethnal Green and Bow was Muslim.

So, Kings implied comments at the time that Muslims are the "only ones he has won over" was incorrect, as was her prediction on the result.

 

[mk12]

In the article below we say that of the 120,000 Tower Hamlets constituents about 50 per cent are Muslim yet the 2001 census found only 39.16 per cent of the population of Bethnal Green and Bow was Muslim

George Galloway Respect-Unity Coalition 15,801 35.9%

 

[Joon]

He's on at 10pm tonight..

He'll be joined by broadcaster and writer Michael Rosen to discuss the fallout in Britain from the conflict in the Middle East. Is anti-Semitism on the rise, as an unofficial committee of MPs claims this week? When does legitimate criticism of Israel cross over into anti-Jewish prejudice? Phone 08704 20 20 20 or text in via 81089 or email via the website – www.talksport.net – to join the discussion.