G8 SUMMIT 2006 will u be going ?

[flickerx]

I'd argue that a far more worthwhile "anti-capitalist" activity is to help set up and run things in your own neighbourhood or community that help people who are shut out, priced out and alienated from consumer society, helping reconnect people on a human level. This is also a very good way of persuading people about political ideas - people are very receptive to people who can be visibly seen to be doing something positive, especially when there is a concrete example of non-market and non-profit-driven relationships achieving something right in front of them.

or you could do both?

Montevideo, isnt the problem that most of the anarchist/dissent activity in the UK (and beyond) focuses solely on the 'big kahuna' actions or the confrontational style, which rarely achieve any change as far as I can see (still waiting for the downfall of capitalism, and 'replacing it with something nicer' ...), and nobody puts any effort into more local, community based struggles which make a much bigger difference to people's lives, and a lot of the time the goals are actually achievable? I'm not talking about watering down the politics or the methods, just that I feel that trying to 'shut down' the G8 in 2006 or 2007, with the pouring of resources and effort and time into meetings, mailing lists, campaigns, etc is never going to be anything more than a cosmetic clash with the cops.

Even if, say 50,000+ (and on the current attendance of summit protests I think that's optimistic (people at shit like MPH dont count)) people show up on the streets of that location on the Baltic Sea where the German G8 is, and even a tenth of them engage in serious property damage/rock throwing/car burning, and then all go home, hasnt all this happened before? What are we learning from it? If these summit protests are inspirational, and the politics behind them are liberating and genuine, why are there not half a million people at them, or 5 million, or even 50 million (thats still only one eighth of the population of the EU, i think)?

Right now I'm feeling fairly cynical about the whole summit protest thing. And yeah I have to echo people's negative opinions about Gleneagles (yeah I was there). On an island of 60 million people, there were about 3,000 people doing blockades and 'clowning' about, and maybe 4 or 5 thousand on the G8A march (lets not get into micro left political point scoring here!!). Thats such an infestimally small percentage of people to be involved in a political movement that terms itself as grassroots, horizontal, of the people, etc etc. And never mind the fact that loads of that contingent had travelled from Europe as well.

Right now, I think summit protests, and consequently anarchism (because that is primarily the activity that most resources and effort are put into) are going nowhere, and there is very little on offer to convince me otherwise.

 

[In Bloom]

Depressed cynicism such as yours is actualy the biggest obstacle to social change.

Depressed? Who's depressed? I'm just aware of the basic reality of the matter, the rich and powerful aren't going to give up being rich and powerful because we asked them nicely. As Fredrick Douglas once said, "Power concedes nothing without a demand."

Martin Luthor King stood up and inspired a nation and in doing so risked his life and became a martyr. I rather suspect that if you could see the strength he found inside himself. You would apoligise for making that last statement.

Rosa Parks, Franklin McCain, Joseph McNeil, Ezell Blair Jr. and David Richmond, they and people like them were the driving force behind the civil rights movement. Not nice speeches. Jesus, as if people are so fucking stupid they can't tell whether or not they are being brutally oppressed without some pastor coming over and making a speech about how terrible it is to be oppressed. Inspired a nation my arse

 

[Fuchs66]

To all those thinking of kicking off in St Pete's just a word from the (hopefully) wise, "think very carefully before you start anything other than peaceful protest". You may think the British police are violent and agressive but compared to the thugs in uniform there, they're a bunch of tutu wearing, flower picking softies. There is a real chance of being badly injured, jailed for a long time on trumped up charges or even killed.

Gleneagles it aint.

 

[Buds and Spawn]

Dead, is how I'd put it.

Spot on. In London RTS was a victim of its' own success, and the changing context of direct action (different policing, recuperation by the SWP and liberals, general confusion, burn-out and a lack of new up for it peeps....).

But we should remember that RTS is alive and kicking around the world. Street parties happen all the time.

As for the G8 - the time for mass-actions outside whichever conference centre the greedheads are throwing their jolly at is over.... It's time for something less predictable. something that will throw the state and the left, and something the cops won't be able to stop, and something that Globalise Resistance won't be able to flood with their daft orange flags...

 

[deeplight]

Depressed? Who's depressed? I'm just aware of the basic reality of the matter, the rich and powerful aren't going to give up being rich and powerful because we asked them nicely. As Fredrick Douglas once said, "Power concedes nothing without a demand."


Rosa Parks, Franklin McCain, Joseph McNeil, Ezell Blair Jr. and David Richmond, they and people like them were the driving force behind the civil rights movement. Not nice speeches. Jesus, as if people are so fucking stupid they can't tell whether or not they are being brutally oppressed without some pastor coming over and making a speech about how terrible it is to be oppressed. Inspired a nation my arse

The reality of the matter is that things are changing. People are becoming more aware and western governments have to be more and more cunning in order to get away with stuff. Iraq being a good example of that. Just 20 years ago we would have already invaded Iran no questions asked.

The road to change is a slow one in many respects but there are many examples of how the world has become more concientious in the last hundred years. There are also many examples of of ignorance and oppression. Reality is and will remain to some level subjective. If we focus on solely on the negative that will remain all we see.

Its true that power gives up nothing lightly but it also has to play a game with our awareness. What part of reality are you focussing on? Does that suit those in power? does it reflect who you love to be? These are just a few questions to ask yourself.

I am positive in my outlook because I realise that awareness in a light that does not go out. Once someone is aware of something they do not become unaware, and in sharing that awareness to many people in their life-times awreness grows exponentially. Those in power are then les able to get away with oppression, and eventually aware poeple are the ones in power. It might not happen in our lifetimes but that is no reason not to get some of the way there. After all it is an expression of who we are.

Martin Luther King became a figure head for something very important and in doing so was killed. He became a martyr and that is the most important thing about his life possibly. When you make half the effort he did towards social change you wil be qualified to stand in judgement over him. That is a moot point however because if you were uncynical enough to do that you wouldn't be so critical.

 

[Buds and Spawn]

The road to change is a slow one

..which is the last thing we need. The planet is already making life very difficult for us at the moment. The clock is ticking, and we don't have the time to rely on the slow road.

Martin Luthor King became a figure head for something very important and in doing so was killed. He became a martyr and that is the most important thing about his life possibly.

Martyrs are the last thing we want. Radical social change that's going to last has to include pretty much everyone, and involve action that everyone can take. While martyrs can kick off short-lived or limited change the process is too exclusive. Everyone needs to be empowered.

 

[TeeJay]

Martin Luthor King became a figure head for something very important and in doing so was killed. He became a martyr and that is the most important thing about his life possibly. When you make half the effort he did towards social change you wil be qualified to stand in judgement over him. That is a mute point however because if you were uncynical enough to do that you wouldn't be so critical.

Sorry to be pedantic but its Martin Luther King, and "moot" point (from the legal practise of "mooting" meaning a practise or mock debate on a theoretical point of law, and before that from the nordic "folk moots" or public meetings).

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=moot

 

[LLETSA]

The reality of the matter is that things are changing. People are becoming more aware and western governments have to be more and more cunning in order to get away with stuff. Iraq being a good example of that. Just 20 years ago we would have already invaded Iran no questions asked.

Twenty years ago the Soviet Union still existed. Whne that was the case there would have been no chance at all of an invasion of either Iran nor Iraq by the US and allies. (The first Iraq war took place when those in power in the USSR knew that the state's days were numbered.)

 

[LLETSA]

It's time for something less predictable. something that will throw the state and the left

Amusing to see another 'anarchist' put the state and the left on the same footing.

 

[LLETSA]

The reality of the matter is that things are changing. People are becoming more aware and western governments have to be more and more cunning in order to get away with stuff. Iraq being a good example of that. Just 20 years ago we would have already invaded Iran no questions asked.

'People are becoming more aware' of what exactly?

 

[LLETSA]

Breath is baited

..which is the last thing we need. The planet is already making life very difficult for us at the moment. The clock is ticking, and we don't have the time to rely on the slow road.


Martyrs are the last thing we want. Radical social change that's going to last has to include pretty much everyone, and involve action that everyone can take. While martyrs can kick off short-lived or limited change the process is too exclusive. Everyone needs to be empowered.

I suspect that something truly visionary (that will throw both the state and, most importantly, the left) could be forthcoming here?

 

[LLETSA]

Spot on. In London RTS was a victim of its' own success, and the changing context of direct action (different policing, recuperation by the SWP and liberals, general confusion, burn-out and a lack of new up for it peeps....).

But we should remember that RTS is alive and kicking around the world. Street parties happen all the time.

As for the G8 - the time for mass-actions outside whichever conference centre the greedheads are throwing their jolly at is over.... It's time for something less predictable. something that will throw the state and the left, and something the cops won't be able to stop, and something that Globalise Resistance won't be able to flood with their daft orange flags...

What was this 'success', may I ask?

 

[Buds and Spawn]

State and left are the same sensu messing up the direct action movement - just different tactics. In other ways they are of course different. Apologies, I thought the context was clear.

The success of RTS - for me - was pretty much every RTS action between 96 - 2000 (and earlier but I had no experience of that so won't comment). The M41 party, J18, and Mayday 2000 (although the last one is a bit more controversial) were amazing.

These actions were incredibly inspirational to many peeps and took the fight to the forces of darkness in a way on-site campaigns never could. RTS did things that many groups / campaigns / networks only talked about or never dreamed of. Eventually - from my perspective - too much was expected of an increasingly burnt-out RTS, and at the expense of other peeps organising...

Pardon my slack terminology - I'd rather be having a siesta.

 

[aurora green]

What was this 'success', may I ask?

Are you saying rts wasn't a successful direct action/campaign group?

 

[deeplight]

..which is the last thing we need. The planet is already making life very difficult for us at the moment. The clock is ticking, and we don't have the time to rely on the slow road.


Martyrs are the last thing we want. Radical social change that's going to last has to include pretty much everyone, and involve action that everyone can take. While martyrs can kick off short-lived or limited change the process is too exclusive. Everyone needs to be empowered.

Do all you can, keep the faith, and keep patient. Its all any of us can do. All Im suggesting is that people are aware of the bigger picture.

Its not so much the martyrdom as the inspiration that insues from it thats important and does empower people.

 

[deeplight]

'People are becoming more aware' of what exactly?

Freedom and peoples god given rights to name just two things. How governments operate and trick the masses, that we are all equal, that there is enough to go round on our planet, that we cannot carry on living as greedily and wastefully as we are. And that we can become better.

Need I go on?

 

[deeplight]

Twenty years ago the Soviet Union still existed. Whne that was the case there would have been no chance at all of an invasion of either Iran nor Iraq by the US and allies. (The first Iraq war took place when those in power in the USSR knew that the state's days were numbered.)

OK fair cop, bad example.

Im sure you understand my point though.

 

[catch]

All Im suggesting is that people are aware of the bigger picture.

People are more aware of the bigger picture than when exactly? More aware than during the miners strike, Portugal '74, Paris '68, Hungary '56, Spain '36, Britain '26?

Its not so much the martyrdom as the inspiration that insues from it thats important and does empower people.

How does it inspire and empower people to watch others get killed on their behalf?

 

[DrRingDing]

Genova & the Carabiniri? Yes

Russia and their filth? fuck.that.

 

[Buds and Spawn]

People are more aware of the bigger picture than when exactly? More aware than during the miners strike, Portugal '74, Paris '68, Hungary '56, Spain '36, Britain '26?

Too right. It's easy to delude yourself when you've got a short memory or don't know the history of your own struggle.

Genova & the Carabiniri? Yes

So far as it enrages us - but not in the sense of martyrdom. I don't see Carlo Guiliani as a martyr in the conventional sense.

And to be honest I've never liked the way his death was singled out from the many others who have died at the end of a cops gun in protests globally (we never seem to be so bothered by South Americans getting killed in the same way?).

Do all you can, keep the faith, and keep patient.

Top marks for optimism though

 

[LLETSA]

Are you saying rts wasn't a successful direct action/campaign group?

Well in what way did it change society?

 

[LLETSA]

Freedom and peoples god given rights to name just two things. How governments operate and trick the masses, that we are all equal, that there is enough to go round on our planet, that we cannot carry on living as greedily and wastefully as we are. And that we can become better.

Need I go on?

Yes, and at considerable length. Starting with even a glimmer of evidence for such claims.

 

[LLETSA]

Genova & the Carabiniri? Yes

Russia and their filth? fuck.that.

What does that mean? That a cetain type of western anarcho will 'have a go' (to what end is never exactly clear) when they know that, ultimately, they have the mercy of the bourgeois state to fall back on?

How do you imagine it is for your Russian counterparts?

 

[Buds and Spawn]

Well in what way did it change society?

In what way didn't it? How on Earth do you measure that?

It changed me and many people I know. We're part of society - so

The UK Government thought so - witness the new laws brought in to clampdown on protest from the amended CJA onwards. Look at how seriously set-back the road-building programme was.

Also, one thing I'm not fond of but accept to be true is that direct action makes life a lot rosier for the NGOs and reformists. They suddenly appear reasonable and attractive to the powers that be, and Middle England.

I also think RTS played a big part as a catalyst for the big mobilisations against the WTO, G8 from 2000 onwards etc.. don't tell me they haven't had an effect...

 

[In Bloom]

Well in what way did it change society?

That wasn't what they were trying to do though, was it?

 

[LLETSA]

Genova & the Carabiniri? Yes

Russia and their filth? fuck.that.

Although reading through the thread again, I do realise that you are being sarcastic towards others.

Principle of what I said above still applies though.

 

[LLETSA]

That wasn't what they were trying to do though, was it?

I thought that protest was geared towards changing society.

Maybe I was wrong and it is instead geared solely towards the self-gratification of the participants.

 

[Ryazan]

What does that mean? That a cetain type of western anarcho will 'have a go' (to what end is never exactly clear) when they know that, ultimately, they have the mercy of the bourgeois state to fall back on?

How do you imagine it is for your Russian counterparts?

More important things to be concerned about.

 

[LLETSA]

In what way didn't it? How on Earth do you measure that?

It changed me and many people I know. We're part of society - so

The UK Government thought so - witness the new laws brought in to clampdown on protest from the amended CJA onwards. Look at how seriously set-back the road-building programme was.

Also, one thing I'm not fond of but accept to be true is that direct action makes life a lot rosier for the NGOs and reformists. They suddenly appear reasonable and attractive to the powers that be, and Middle England.

I also think RTS played a big part as a catalyst for the big mobilisations against the WTO, G8 from 2000 onwards etc.. don't tell me they haven't had an effect...

Which roads were halted altogether? How was the car-orientated society fundamentally altered?

What you are describing is not a successful campaign, but one which joins a long line of defeated ones, however it might have looked at the time.

As for 'changing yourself through political campaigning,' well....

 

[LLETSA]

More important things to be concerned about.

Konyechna!