G20, RBS and violence.

[Zachor]

That's pathetic.

"Would you like kettling or baton charging?

"Erm, neither actually"

"No, no, sir you have to choose one or the other"

Well it is a choice between one or the other. I've seen the police crack heads unecessarily at Wapping and I can't help thinking that kettling would have been a better tactic to use back then.

Or would you rather face the French CRS they don't take no prisoners and you'd have some interesting scars to show later on. Rather have the British way to be honest.

 

[tangentlama]

The kettle keeps the potentially violent in one place.

See, you're doing that 'pre-emptive strike' thing again. Justifying collective punishment based on what psychological studies have shown of how people get increasingly annoyed when confined into a small space. The penning creates the raised annoyance levels, which might cause violence, and that probability, however small, is used to justify continuing the penning - it's cyclic and annoyance/anger is actually caused by the act of penning.

Penning/kettling people into Gaza - after all, we can pretty much guarantee that they're still pissed off at having their land/house confiscated 40 years ago without any civil justice or compensation, so this justifies penning them into Gaza for 40 years, which causes flare up of anger and hopelessness, so this cyclic justification continues.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Well it is a choice between one or the other. I've seen the police crack heads unecessarily at Wapping and I can't help thinking that kettling would have been a better tactic to use back then.

Or would you rather face the French CRS they don't take no prisoners and you'd have some interesting scars to show later on. Rather have the British way to be honest.

Binary thinking.

 

[tangentlama]

Government Minister: "If citizens discover how much we're screwing them and their children, they'll turn nasty"
MET: "Shall I pop the kettle on, Sir"?

 

[Zachor]

See, you're doing that 'pre-emptive strike' thing again. Justifying collective punishment based on what psychological studies have shown of how people get increasingly annoyed when confined into a small space. The penning creates the raised annoyance levels, which might cause violence, and that probability, however small, is used to justify continuing the penning - it's cyclic and annoyance/anger is actually caused by the act of penning.

Penning/kettling people into Gaza - after all, we can pretty much guarantee that they're still pissed off at having their land/house confiscated 40 years ago without any civil justice or compensation, so this justifies penning them into Gaza for 40 years, which causes flare up of anger and hopelessness, so this cyclic justification continues.

This is why I'm in favour of 'intellegent kettling' where intellegence gained about troublemakers and observation evidence from the protest itself is used to release those who just want to peacefully protest and detain ever dwindling numbers of people until you are just left with a hard core to mop up.

Your Gaza analogy is a world of fail I'm afraid as it doesn't acknowledge the facts that Israel has kept Gaza supplied with food, fuel, water etc etc for years and the fact that Israel said 'OK you want you own govt we'll pull out our people and its yours' only to face missiles and yet more hatred. I'm all in favour of compensating Palestinians but only if they act in a peaceful way.

 

[tangentlama]

No, Israel has not kept Gaza supplied with food and water for years, you barefaced liar.

Anyway, enough of this - as you can see - Zachor is incapable of thinking for himself. He believes what he is told by the authorities their press-releases and accepts hardline excuses for justifying unspeakable acts from state towards citizen.

 

[winjer]

The kettle keeps the potentially violent in one place.

No it doesn't. Why not do a little more reading, a little less posting?

This could be coupled with providing transport outside the immediate demo area for those released from the kettle so tht they are released far away from the demo to prevent people joining the demo again on that day.

So only violent people should be allowed to demonstrate, in case they turn violent?

 

[tangentlama]

winjer - Zachor is a troll.

 

[xes]

winjer - Zachor is a troll.

but zachor is right, kettling keeps all the violent police in one place. A nice big line of weaponry.

(I suggest using hooks to break that up btw, but that's probably not bessed discussed on here)

 

[GoneCoastal]

What is needed is some method of separating 'sheep from goats' if you see what I mean so that non violent protestors can be removed as quick as possible from the kettle. This could be coupled with providing transport outside the immediate demo area for those released from the kettle so tht they are released far away from the demo to prevent people joining the demo again on that day.

*More confused*

Transport people who haven't done anything wrong to another area ? Then what ? Forcibly put them on trains to somewhere they probably didn't come from & thus have no reason to go to ? And thus make sure that they'll be even less happy with the outcome

That's merely physically moving the kettle elsewhere afaics

Sounds more like "running someone out of town" in the wild west

 

[nopassaran]

Well it is a choice between one or the other. I've seen the police crack heads unecessarily at Wapping and I can't help thinking that kettling would have been a better tactic to use back then.

Or would you rather face the French CRS they don't take no prisoners and you'd have some interesting scars to show later on. Rather have the British way to be honest.

But they were both 'kettling' and attacking people with batons people last week, so whilst the methods of policing employed in the continent are probably more brutal by comparison, surely the potential for the British police to behave in a similar way is plainly apparent. And should protestors have reacted more confrontationally to the Police attacks, then this would have upped the ante no end. You'll also find that the Police did employ 'kettling' like tactics in the 80s when policing industrial disputes and political demonstrations. And quite frankly it's totally indefensible on the basis that firstly, it denies innocent people a fundamental human right, namely the freedom of movement, on the basis that they are participating in a political protest; and by definition criminalises people for daring to express dissent through mass protest.

It's not a case of either or, I think it's more a case of preventing the slide into a Police state, and ensuring the Police remain fully accountable for their actions, which after last week, just doesn't seem to be the case at all in this country.

 

[albionism]

Well it is a choice between one or the other.

I've seen the police crack heads unecessarily at Wapping and I can't help thinking that kettling would have been a better tactic to use back then.

Or would you rather face the French CRS they don't take no prisoners and you'd have some interesting scars to show later on. Rather have the British way to be honest.

Police used both kettling and the cracking of heads simultaniously on 1st April. TWIT.

 

[Blagsta]

Your Gaza analogy is a world of fail I'm afraid as it doesn't acknowledge the facts that Israel has kept Gaza supplied with food, fuel, water etc etc for years

This is a lie isn't it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Maybe if they'd moved when the police told them to they wouldn't have got done over.

For someone who claims to have photographed lots of demos, you appear to have a rather tenuous grasp of standard police operating tactics.

I have no problem with kettling people (its better than baton rounds after all) to avoid trouble spreading...

Except, of course, that "kettling" isn't an alternative to baton rounds or CS gas, it's an indiscriminate alternative to targeted crowd control, and it incites trouble (through arbitrary imprisonment) in the people who are "kettled".
Really, learn some basic tactics and strategy, then perhaps you might stop talking out of your arse.

but I do feel that more should be done to identify those kettled who are obviously either a) not part of the demo and b) obviously not troublemakers and let them go.

And you do that...how?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Kettling = encirclement. Encirclement is an age-old tactic. To imagine the state will not use tactics such as this is as naive as to imagine they won't crack your head when they deem it necessary.

Yep, "encirclement" is "first fortnight at Sandhurst" stuff, the sort of thing any chess-player learns very early on. It's so simple even plod can do it (mostly) without fuck-ups.

The state is not neutral and never will be. It exists to enforce the will of the ruling class. The only solution is to not allow yourself to be dictated to by the state on demonstrations by resistance in self defence and not be forced into kettle-type situations in the first place.

Yep.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is why I'm in favour of 'intellegent kettling' where intellegence gained about troublemakers and observation evidence from the protest itself is used to release those who just want to peacefully protest and detain ever dwindling numbers of people until you are just left with a hard core to mop up.

Unfortunately for your fantasy of "intelligent kettling", neither the police nor the intelligence services (despite what your watching of "Spooks" tells you) have the technology or manpower to manage such a "real-time" system. If they could do so, they would need to use tactics like "kettling" in the first place, you 24-carat twat.

Your Gaza analogy is a world of fail I'm afraid as it doesn't acknowledge the facts that Israel has kept Gaza supplied with food, fuel, water etc etc for years...

Really? There was me thinking that UNRWA could take most of the credit for that, with the state of Israel often attempting to put the brakes on even the bare minimum the UN are able to manage (hence the massive smuggling of food and fuel).

and the fact that Israel said 'OK you want you own govt we'll pull out our people and its yours' only to face missiles and yet more hatred. I'm all in favour of compensating Palestinians but only if they act in a peaceful way.

In other words "if they conform to the will of the state of Israel".
I seem to recall similar attitudes in central Europe in the 1930s.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm in favour of 'intellegent kettling'

Is that like "smart bombs" that only kill bad guys?

 

[e19896]

To make a complaint against the police call IPCC 08453 002 002, London City police 02076012222, Met Authority 02072020202. For items lost during G20 'police riots' call 02076063110 - If you don't have a complaint call them anyway for a chat, they don't have anything better to do now they haven't got innocent people to beat up :

Have fun:

 

[Zachor]

This is a lie isn't it.

No it isn't. This is what I'm getting from responsible sources within Israel (inc progressive Zionist sources) which I feel are far more reliable than the more partisan stuff that is going round Left activist / islamist circles.

 

[winjer]

(inc progressive Zionist sources)

Progress of a sort for you to admit that there are other kinds.

Did you read the Mayday judgment yet?

 

[editor]

No it isn't. This is what I'm getting from responsible sources within Israel (inc progressive Zionist sources) which I feel are far more reliable than the more partisan stuff that is going round Left activist / islamist circles.

What's this got to do with Wednesday's protests please?

 

[dennisr]

What's this got to do with Wednesday's protests please?

its his new 'belonging' to a new group thing - wait till she (or he i shouldn't assume...) dumps him

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Is that like "smart bombs" that only kill bad guys?

Surgical kettle!

 

[Blagsta]

No it isn't. This is what I'm getting from responsible sources within Israel (inc progressive Zionist sources) which I feel are far more reliable than the more partisan stuff that is going round Left activist / islamist circles.

I think Amnesty International would disagree with you.

 

[danny la rouge]

Surgical kettle!

 

[danny la rouge]

I think Amnesty International would disagree with you.

the anti-Semitic bastards!