G20 London - April 2nd '09

[Das Uberdog]

To InBloom: would the world really be a better place if people didn't protest against the G8 Summit? What kind of society would that be, and how would it be no less progressive than a world where we all focussed on different issues?

 

[In Bloom]

To InBloom: would the world really be a better place if people didn't protest against the G8 Summit? What kind of society would that be

G20 not G8, and honestly, I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference one way or the other.

What is this:

how would it be no less progressive than a world where we all focussed on different issues?

Supposed to mean, by the way?

 

[In Bloom]

here we go again.....abstract / vague / supremely optimistic / etc , but " idiotic to say the least " ????

Multiple question marks are definately a sign of sanity.

again - WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST you fucking moaning minnie ?

As I've said on previous threads, activists would be better off getting down the nuts and bolts of organising, rather than staging spectacular protests and hoping that enough people who actually matter show up to make it halfway interesting.

 

[TopCat]

Multiple question marks are definately a sign of sanity.


As I've said on previous threads, activists would be better off getting down the nuts and bolts of organising, rather than staging spectacular protests and hoping that enough people who actually matter show up to make it halfway interesting.

What have you ever organised in bloom that has had any demonstrate able effect?

 

[In Bloom]

What have you ever organised in bloom that has had any demonstrate able effect?

Nothing of any interest, but then I'm not claiming to be of any great importance. What about you?

 

[Das Uberdog]

The question I meant to ask was what kind of society would it be that didn't protest against the G8 summit.

 

[In Bloom]

The question I meant to ask was what kind of society would it be that didn't protest against the G8 summit.

Well as I said earlier, I can't see how it'd make a great deal of difference one way or another, given how inneffectual previous summit protests have been. You might as well ask what sort of society we'd have if there were no new romantics, the social and political impact was about the same.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

.. it isn't that bizarre .. i assume it relates to e.g the Thais recent demos or the ukrainian orange revolution where thousends took over the centre of their capital cities

indeed, and what about Iceland? Seems far more appropriate.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Well as I said earlier, I can't see how it'd make a great deal of difference one way or another, given how inneffectual previous summit protests have been.

er, except that then capitalism was on a 20 year up (with a couple of blips) and industrial action was down, and now people are much more likely to personally, personally, sympathise with an attach on capitalism.

secondly, for the last time, they did achieve something - they told millions of people that there was a serious opposition to capitalism, not a difference of opinion or a choice of parties, but an opposition that called capitalism completely illegitimate.

 

[butchersapron]

And no one gave a fuck. Most people didn't even notice. I'm not knocking those things - it was needed that they were done, but nor for the reasons you put. (and a 20 year up? - madness)

 

[butchersapron]

indeed, and what about Iceland? Seems far more appropriate.

It's more directly related to 'what happens after the cops fuck off?' (or whatever it was called) - given that it was asking about the UK and not tiny countries with 'opposition' movements proped up by CIA money or with single centres of power. People need to calm the fuck down about the current situation IMO and stop beating themselves into scenarios of dual power.

 

[kyser_soze]

You might as well ask what sort of society we'd have if there were no new romantics

Hair gel technology would be at least 2 decades behind the times, thus leaving a whole generation unable to acheive hold AND flex...

 

[LLETSA]

It's more directly related to 'what happens after the cops fuck off?' (or whatever it was called) - given that it was asking about the UK and not tiny countries with 'opposition' movements proped up by CIA money or with single centres of power. People need to calm the fuck down about the current situation IMO and stop beating themselves into scenarios of dual power.

That's just it-the parallels with Ukraine are spurious, given that a movement well-funded from abroad and backed by western governments had a clear focus, which was to install in office a ready-prepared (if ultimately ineffectual) government. Those with more radical aims might have joined the protests, but were ignored and have built nothing of note since. In Iceland the protestors might have caused the government to finally step aside for others ultimately little different, but, again, more radical elements have few genuine roots in the working class.

How it all developes might ultimately depend on how the inevitable failure of the G20 summit to come up with anything to halt the economic meltdown impacts on the markets and the wider economy. It could be history's ultimate irony that capitalism has entered what may turn out to be its most serious crisis ever at a time when coherent opposition has never been so disorganised, small and weak.

 

[durruti02]

As I've said on previous threads, activists would be better off getting down the nuts and bolts of organising, rather than staging spectacular protests and hoping that enough people who actually matter show up to make it halfway interesting.

well i agree that activists show be doing a million times more nuts and bolts .. and i have argued that point repeatedly on U75 and elsewhere .. but also there are times when it is important to do differrent things, propaganda, spectactulars indeed .. that generalise what we do, that inspire etc etc

 

[Herbert Read]

i booked flights from leeds bradford airport, got a good deal arraiving about 8 30 on the 1st do i head straight to the climate camp

 

[Mitre10]

There was another article about this here:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...for+G20+leaders'+arrival+in+London/article.do

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

i booked flights from leeds bradford airport, got a good deal arraiving about 8 30 on the 1st do i head straight to the climate camp

Did someone miss climate change 101?

 

[Clint Iguana]

28th March: Central London march - Put People First - http://www.putpeoplefirst.org.uk/

UNISON are putting a lot of effort into mobilising for this, far more effort than i have EVER seen them put into anything that wasn't stricly a unison thing. Staff being allocated to organising busses, thier own publicity material... more here

 

[Taxamo Welf]

And no one gave a fuck. Most people didn't even notice.

Oh i totally agree, most people didn't. But its a bit rich for a guy like madashell who came into the anarchist movement between 1995 and 2005 to say the anticapitalist movewment had *no* affect whatsoever, it clearly did on them i'd wager.

I think the image and message, at its most basic level, of the riots and disruption at the G8, IMF and WTO summits certainly switched a tiny tiny number of people on to revolutionary politics and a direct kind of revolutoonary politics too. Why did you go anyway? What were you hoping to achieve and do you feel it was achieved?

I'm not knocking those things - it was needed that they were done, but not for the reasons you put.

Oh. Ok. What then?

(and a 20 year up? - madness)

Oh. Ok. What then? I thought the marjet kept expanding from some point in the 1980s to the present, with blips but not huge ones. What was the score?

 

[Das Uberdog]

I wasn't asking about effectiveness anyway, I was asking what kind of society it would be that didn't protest the G20.

 

[Prince Rhyus]

Use the tools at http://www.mysociety.org/ (e.g. http://www.writetothem.com/) to pester your local political reps, http://www.pledgebank.com/ to pledge to come along/get involved but only if others do, or even http://groupsnearyou.com/ if you are a functioning group in this or a related (or even a non-related field.)

 

[Bakunin]

I'll be up in London for this, after I've helped out locally with Fossil Fool's Day on April 1st.

 

[e19896]

Nothing will change for working class people without significant changes to the class structure!

The G20 MELTDOWN site announces 4 starting points to converge on the city on April 1st - starting from these 4 stations at 11am - Moorgate, London Bridge, Liverpool street and Cannon Street. Also calling for a GENERAL STRIKE on the day. I’ll be interviewing CHRIS KNIGHT about the Meltdown and the GOVERNMENT OF THE DEAD on Resonancefm. Unmissable radio. It looks like the March 28th TUC marchwill be BIGGER THAN THE POLL TAX RIOT!

So we are told by Ian Bone, come on comrade look towords whome you are joining forcess with, 25 years on from when The Miners’ Strike (1984–1985) began, these are the very people who are saying no new coal there the ones that brought you climate camp these people are not the new class war, there The Middle Class the very root of our problems.

When we RIOT it has to be on our terms, not on thers or the state, we need to RIOT THROUGH SUBERBIA and as well as roasting a fat banker or 2 we need to add more meat to the feast in the form of The Middle Class..

 

[free spirit]

Nothing will change for working class people without significant changes to the class structure!



So we are told by Ian Bone, come on comrade look towords whome you are joining forcess with, 25 years on from when The Miners’ Strike (1984–1985) began, these are the very people who are saying no new coal there the ones that brought you climate camp these people are not the new class war, there The Middle Class the very root of our problems.

When we RIOT it has to be on our terms, not on thers or the state, we need to RIOT THROUGH SUBERBIA and as well as roasting a fat banker or 2 we need to add more meat to the feast in the form of The Middle Class..

I used to think you were just a bit overeager, now I see you're actually an utter cock who'd have fitted in well with the kamer rouge.

at this point in history when the vast majority of the middle class are more contemptuous of those at the top of the pile than they have been for at least a generation, it's perhaps a wee bit fucking stupid to decide that they are actually the enemy rather than looking at what common ground there might be to form a proper mass movement that can punch at or above it's weight to force some meaningful change.

all or nothing rhetoric is great if you want to be viewed as a ranting fool, but not so good if you actually want to achieve anything IMO.

 

[e19896]

I used to think you were just a bit overeager, now I see you're actually an utter cock who'd have fitted in well with the kamer rouge.

at this point in history when the vast majority of the middle class are more contemptuous of those at the top of the pile than they have been for at least a generation, it's perhaps a wee bit fucking stupid to decide that they are actually the enemy rather than looking at what common ground there might be to form a proper mass movement that can punch at or above it's weight to force some meaningful change.

all or nothing rhetoric is great if you want to be viewed as a ranting fool, but not so good if you actually want to achieve anything IMO.

Just why would i desire to enage with them? there only intrest is due to the fact the social status is at risk oh dear me, do i give a fuck well erm no, there is no common ground to be had with them..

There scum and this is all needs to be said, i have never will have any desire to work with them ever again given them the common ground hand of friendship only to be fucked over, though i would desire to in this place once more no thanks.

Come down to where we are as a class, then tell me and our class we are talking shit, nothing but rhetoric of course easy to see us as ranting fools, but what is the point of this protest i mean what is the point, just more Middle Class concerned over the loss of there social status, well while there down ill kick a little bit more..

 

[free spirit]

Just why would i desire to enage with them? there only intrest is due to the fact the social status is at risk oh dear me, do i give a fuck well erm no, there is no common ground to be had with them..

There scum and this is all needs to be said, i have never will have any desire to work with them ever again given them the common ground hand of friendship only to be fucked over, though i would desire to in this place once more no thanks.

Come down to where we are as a class, then tell me and our class we are talking shit, nothing but rhetoric of course easy to see us as ranting fools, but what is the point of this protest i mean what is the point, just more Middle Class concerned over the loss of there social status, well while there down ill kick a little bit more..

who is this 'we' that you talk about?

I get the distinct impression that you're in a class all of your own

 

[cantsin]

I used to think you were just a bit overeager, now I see you're actually an utter cock who'd have fitted in well with the kamer rouge.

at this point in history when the vast majority of the middle class are more contemptuous of those at the top of the pile than they have been for at least a generation, it's perhaps a wee bit fucking stupid to decide that they are actually the enemy rather than looking at what common ground there might be to form a proper mass movement that can punch at or above it's weight to force some meaningful change.

all or nothing rhetoric is great if you want to be viewed as a ranting fool, but not so good if you actually want to achieve anything IMO.

utter rubbish on so many fronts ( have you ready any history ? EVER ? ) , but off to watch re- runs of master chef , so I'll leave you to it you deluded
plank.

 

[e19896]

who is this 'we' that you talk about?

I get the distinct impression that you're in a class all of your own

and who are you? is this debate or just another shit slinging moment, did you not say find some common ground, erm seems you aint intrested in any fucking common ground fucking middle class are we?

 

[free spirit]

utter rubbish on so many fronts ( have you ready any history ? EVER ? ) , but off to watch re- runs of master chef , so I'll leave you to it you deluded
plank.

history - erm, yeah, a fair bit, any particular bit you had in mind?

 

[free spirit]

and who are you? is this debate or just another shit slinging moment, did you not say find some common ground, erm seems you aint intrested in any fucking common ground fucking middle class are we?

common ground?

sorry, but I think you fucked that one up when you said this...

When we RIOT it has to be on our terms, not on thers or the state, we need to RIOT THROUGH SUBERBIA and as well as roasting a fat banker or 2 we need to add more meat to the feast in the form of The Middle Class..

which was kinda the point I was trying to make in case you missed it... going around spouting off about the middle class being the enemy and other similar crap is only ever going to alienate a fuckload of people, and leave you politically isolated and impotent.

attacking the puppets really isn't the best way to get to the puppeteers, especially when attacking the puppets only serves to dramatically increase the supply of puppets available to the puppeteers, and decrease your own support... if that's not too subtle an analagy for you.