Future Brixton

[ChrisSouth]

It's so they can build a gay mosque for disabled people located in the right part of Brixton...

I think you're missing the point in quite a nasty discriminatory way, actually.

Anyway, you can't have a 'gay' mosque. Buildings don't have a sexuality (unless you're of the opinion of the foul Chris Moyles). Perhaps what you meant to state is that it's so that the council can build a mosque for gay disabled people, which is equally as nasty a thing to say.

 

[Brainaddict]

I think boohoo was joking ChrisSouth - and not in the way you think

 

[Gramsci]

Dont know if this was covered earlier in the thread, but I received the questionnaire thing today. Why on earth do they want to know my sexual orientation? How will that affect the redevelopment of Brixton Market? I can understand the need for the question about whether I'm disabled or not, but gay/bi/straight - please?


QUOTE]

You actually dont have to answer this section of the questionairre as far as I know.Your answers to the specific questions re Brixton should still be taken to count.

I certainly wouldnt want to put a lot of very personal details including name and address altogether on one reply.We all now what happens to personal info.

Noticed they asked you your religous background "even if you are not currently practising".So you are defined by religion even if you reject it.This makes religion part of your identity as though its something you cant help like your skin colour.Im really starting to object to this.Like saying one is Muslim as though its something one cant criticise in any way.Religion is a choice it doesnt define you.

The Council says it needs this info "to make sure we are hearing from all of Lambeths diverse communities and to see if certain issues are more important to some groups than others."Also they wanted your address to see if there were "different views depending on where people where based."

Call me cynical but my experience of "consultation" is that officers use the above info to tailor results of consultation.If they dont get the answer they want they can use "indepth" interviews with "leading" members of the community who views are "underrepresented".It doesnt do any officers career any harm to suck up to community "leaders".

 

[Gramsci]

It's so they can build a gay mosque for disabled people located in the right part of Brixton...

Made me laugh-Perhaps I need to be sent on New Labours Citizenship Classes in how to live in diverse Britain.

I lot of this stuff is beginning to sound like bollox to me.The present government is letting the rich stay rich and not redistributing wealth to build social housing etc.This means local Councils have to sell land and work with "partners" (property developers).

New Labour arent going to dop anything about the fundamental inequalities in this country.So gathering info on "diversity" makes it seem that they are progressive.

 

[Gramsci]

If you havent got the questionnaire.Its here with more info you can access at bottom of page.Theres a pdf questionnaire and one down the bottom to make things confusing.

http://www.futurebrixton.co.uk/have_your_say/questionnaire.html

 

[Winot]

Noticed they asked you your religous background "even if you are not currently practising".So you are defined by religion even if you reject it.

Yes but one of the options is "no religion" if I remember correctly.

 

[lang rabbie]

Noticed they asked you your religous background "even if you are not currently practising".So you are defined by religion even if you reject it.This makes religion part of your identity as though its something you cant help like your skin colour.Im really starting to object to this.Like saying one is Muslim as though its something one cant criticise in any way. Religion is a choice it doesnt define you.

I'm not so sure if that religion has controlled your education. It reminds me of the exchange at Aldergrove airport c.1969:

waiting journalist: “Are you Protestant or Catholic?”

Lord Scarman: “Neither, I’m an agnostic.”

Journalist: “"That's not good enough, are you a Protestant agnostic or a Catholic agnostic?”

My sympathy is with the journalist. After a couple of months working in Belfast with middle-class public service professionals straddling the confessional divide, most of whom were hard-drinking and non church-goers, I could tell the protestant agnostics from the catholic agnostics pretty well.

 

[boohoo]

I think you're missing the point in quite a nasty discriminatory way, actually.

Anyway, you can't have a 'gay' mosque. Buildings don't have a sexuality (unless you're of the opinion of the foul Chris Moyles). Perhaps what you meant to state is that it's so that the council can build a mosque for gay disabled people, which is equally as nasty a thing to say.

My point was why does the council need all this information? What plans will they action based on the information gained from the questions about sexuality, religion, shoe size, etc?

 

[netbob]

My point was why does the council need all this information? What plans will they action based on the information gained from the questions about sexuality, religion, shoe size, etc?

Making sure they are surveying a representative cross section I guess/hope (anything other than that would be spooky I grant you )

 

[boohoo]

Making sure they are surveying a representative cross section I guess/hope (anything other than that would be spooky I grant you )

What happens if you are missing part of the community - say the over 60, Portuguese folk? Do you go and hassle them for their opinions?

 

[editor]

Every single design I've seen for Tate Gardens looks shit. I did another 'then and now' photo feature today - http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/tate-library-garden.html - and it's awful how crap it looks compared to only forty years ago.

More here: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/tate1.html
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/tate2.html

 

[Bob]

Don't worry. The Council's new plan will make it a new sort of shit at the trifling cost of £8m.

 

[citydreams]

What would LibDems do with the space Bob?

 

[isvicthere?]

Who in Brixton charges £3 for a coffee apart from maybe Caffe Nero?

My new favourite coffee place is Opus up acre lane - very good quality. Max-Olivers is also not bad and the Lounge does a good coffee for £1.50. During the day there's also San Marino on the main road.

I would suggest the Ritzy too but unfortunately they serve the worst cappucinos in Brixton.

Even Nero is £2.30 for a large cappuccino.

 

[mccliche]

Every single design I've seen for Tate Gardens looks shit. I did another 'then and now' photo feature today - http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/tate-library-garden.html - and it's awful how crap it looks compared to only forty years ago.

More here: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/tate1.html
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/tate2.html

i'm shocked by that...they really must of been quite worthwile once upon a time then? anymore then & now pics?

 

[Crispy]

i'm shocked by that...they really must of been quite worthwile once upon a time then? anymore then & now pics?

All the links down the right hand side of that page are then n nows.

 

[editor]

i'm shocked by that...they really must of been quite worthwile once upon a time then? anymore then & now pics?

Here's how they looked in 1907.

More: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/tate1.html
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/tate2.html

 

[ovaltina]

I saw that pic and thought "but they couldn't have that these days, the fences, walls and fountains create too many places to hide", but then, think about Soho Square. Right in the middle of town and it still functions as a popular park.

 

[Gramsci]

I'm not so sure if that religion has controlled your education. It reminds me of the exchange at Aldergrove airport c.1969:


My sympathy is with the journalist. After a couple of months working in Belfast with middle-class public service professionals straddling the confessional divide, most of whom were hard-drinking and non church-goers, I could tell the protestant agnostics from the catholic agnostics pretty well.

Fair enough.Its depressing true.

 

[Gramsci]

I went to the two workshops on Somerleyton Road area and "Brixton Exchange" (Rec.Bradys and Kwiksave triangle).

The architects "Stock Woolstencroft" were well impressed by the Eds before and after pics of Brixton".Seems U75 is "feeding" into the consultation.

A few points:

1)The architects are looking at possibilities in the area on behalf of Lambeth.The Pics on the FB website are misleading as the examples the architects showed were interesting possibilities.

2)The whole of Brixton is a MDO(major development oppurtunity) with land owned by the Council and Developers.The arcades and high street are owned by the developers. The Council still owns plots of land and some major buildings-Popes road car park,Somerleyton road and REC.Also some Housing in central Brixton.

3)As the area is an MDO the idea of the Masterplan is that the Council set the agenda for development rather than greedy developers.

4) "Use Value" from Council land should be freed up to provide money for improvements(ie sell Council owned land).As there will be little public funding.

5)There will be some funding from LDA.Who have produced some docs re Brixton which we are not allowed to see as they are "commercially sensitive".

6)Section 106 is up for consultation.S 106 is the money the developer pays to a Council to gain planning permission for large projects. (a legal bribe).This money will be ploughed back into the area.

 

[editor]

The architects "Stock Woolstencroft" were well impressed by the Eds before and after pics of Brixton".Seems U75 is "feeding" into the consultation.

Excellent!

 

[Gramsci]

The Future Brixton "Masterplan" is only the start of the process as "Supplementary Planning Documents" will be added to the Unitary Development Plan later.Also it seems to me that the Masterplan is basically loose guidelines rather than a fixed plan.

It seems to me to be more about urban design than what gets sold and what doesnt.Still the actual meetings did provide an arena for peoples fears about what may happen to Brixton.

Also expressed was the fact that plans are all very well but anything built has to be maintained and planners mustnt let developers get away with stuff like they have in the past.

People were assured that there will be a new Town Centre Mge set up.

So if you treat the Masterplan as a wish list its fair enough.

Stock Woolstonecraft website:

http://www.stockwool.co.uk/STD/index1.html

 

[Gramsci]

An example the architects gave of a regenerated market is Santa Caterina market in Spain:

http://www.mercatsantacaterina.net/

To get to the picture gallery press the compass on the first page and then on the next page that comes up.Then play with the little black buttons on the right.

And this was another example from Rotterdam:

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=1913

 

[lang rabbie]

An example the architects gave of a regenerated market is Santa Caterina market in Spain:

http://www.mercatsantacaterina.net/

Thanks for posting that link. It was a building site the last time I heard, as they discovered the ruins of a Roman Necropolis and a medieval monatery which stalled construction for years. [I suspect that is less of a problem than in Brixton, although the developers at Bermondsey Square were probably put out when about six times more archaeology was found a few inches under the car park tarmac than had been forecast.]

Bur of course the big difference is that Barcelona's markets are still owned by the municipality of Barcelona, which sees them as an essential part of the city life. By contrast, the City of London seems to be turning all its remaining market buildings into shopping centres.

I wish I wasn't so cynical, but something tells me that the property company owners of Market Row and Granville Arcade aren't currently looking at engaging an architect of the calibre of Enric Miralles & Benedetta Tagliabue (who designed the Scottish Parliament) as well as the new Mercat Santa Caterina.

 

[Gramsci]

And I notice you posted that there local Council owns the market not private property management company.Some of the Councils professed interest in Brixton will come up against commercial minded developers.In other parts of Europe strategic parts of economy are still regulated owned by local Councils.

 

[Gramsci]

I went to three of the "consultation" meetings.So have know got more of an idea.They werent that well attended.People were concerned that as LR posts above the quality of the design is likely not to be that high.As developers put forward plans then IMO local people are going to have to look at them and put in objections/criticisms.

As the Council say they want to involve us in Future Brixton this is something people can do.Though how happy local Councillors will be if inundated with emails on specific projects/develpments Im not so sure.The "Brixton Village" caused a lot of controversy with someone saying the Council should get it listed.(Im not so sure this is possible or desirable).

I did say that :

The Masterplan should include the shops on the South side of CHL and Atlantic rd from the Dogstar south.These shops are part of Brixton market area (Lounge,Phoenix,Bookmongers etc).It should also include Rushcroft rd,Vining st and Clifton Mansions residential areas.This housing contains a lot of people who make Brixton what it is-part of its "rich cultural diversity..will drive the expansion of the arts and creative industries." A lot of this housing is Council owned and is under threat of sale.

Opening up th arches behind the Kwiksave triangle is a something id like to see put into the Supplementary Planning Guidance (SPG).If Brixton Village is redeveloped id like to see SPG to provide a through route using the arches and a mixture of small and larger retail units.(To protect the smaller traders).

I agree with multi-use of sites ie housing above retail and spaces put to different uses at different times of day.

Brixton Rec could be remodelled.Also the inside could be opened up to make it an indoor space like the Royal Festival Hall.This was originally what it was lie when it was first opened.

There could be a few brands in the market area (Currys and Tescos used to be in the market)If they were introduced sparingly again it would help the market.

The architects came up with a lot of interesting ideas.I would like to see the architects/planners kept on as consultants as the Masterplan progresses.Also to coment on proposals put forward by the Council/developers.

The FB does not say whether Popes road car park will be sold to a developer.The LDA report on Brixton is "commercially sensitive" .I think people are being asked to comment when they arer being given limited information.In general Im not keen on ant further land being sold to private developers unless the Council puts a good case.(Not the its good for Brixton-if u oppose this your holding Brixton back line of argument either).Nor do I agree that any further housing should be sold to private developers-though transfer to RSLS may be necessary.

 

[lang rabbie]

I posted this on 5 February:

The "Visioning Framework" for Future Brixton - a rather grand title for the consultation draft of the Masterplan - was originally to have been published at the end of January.

It doesn't appear to be on the Future Brixton website, nor is the Questionnaire which was supposed to follow the structure of the "Visioning Framework".

Has it been pulled?

I did hear that the full cabinet only got a presentation for the first time a few weeks ago on what Councillor McGlone and the Future Lambeth officers in regeneration had been allowing the consultant architects to come up with as proposals?

As noted on the new Tesco to Eat Brixton thread, the Visioning Framework has now mysteriously appeared on the Future Lambeth website.

I've just checked the document properties of the pdf file.

This says that the document was created on 31 January 2008 at 14:33:59 and last amended on 15 February at 15:35:59.

But I'm not aware of the bits of this document, especially those sections relating to people's houses being demolished for an expanded Tesco and new council offices, having been made available at any of the so-called "consultation" events in February or March.

Now, I may be being unduly cynical, but when did it finally get published in it entirety? If it hasn't been available to people at the consultation events, then it looks as though the whole consultation was just window dressing to confirm plans that had been drawn up behind closed doors by Lambeth and the London Development Agency.