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Full burqa

Meh, one culture says that women have to be covered, another suggests that actually as little clothing as possible is best.

Both symptoms of quite similar ideas re: women when you get down to it.
 
Agent Sparrow said:
Meh, one culture says that women have to be covered, another suggests that actually as little clothing as possible is best.

Both symptoms of quite similar ideas re: women when you get down to it.
Add to that the zillions of western women wearing hobble skirts and lethal shoes ....

.
 
gaijingirl said:
Or the 3 burqa'd women I saw in Tesco Metros a few weeks ago on Tulse Hill who minutes before had also been seemingly floating around with an aura of peace around them and then got into a huge fight with two other customers and started grabbing bottles of wine out of the fridge section and attempting to smash it over their opponents' heads whilst screaming "I'm gonna facking kill you"...:eek:

See, that's nowt to do with the burqa, that's the Tulse Hill vibe. Those ladies were probably meek and mild before they entered the environs of Tulse Hill. :D :D
 
Cloo said:
It does piss me off when I see a woman in full burqa accompanying a husband who's entirely Westernised - as though it's one rule for him, one for her. I can respect it a bit more if the bloke has a beard and skullcap which implies he sets some kind of stricture on his lifestyle as well.

Double standards never sit comfortably but I think there's something particularly disturbing about a cultural/religious practice that effectively dehumanises one gender by making them invisible. Visibly invisible, if that makes sense.
 
i_hate_beckham said:
I thought this thread was about a new fast food joint called Full Burga. :o :o :o

I have to admit, at first glance, with the line underneath Burqa..so did I..:)
 
I think buquas are a great invention, imagine if you are having a shit day and can't bebothered doing your hair and make-up etc, you don't have to worry about going out looking like a pile of shite. You can be exactly the way you want to under your burqa, I can't understand how people find them offensive in any way.From a awoman's point of view, I find them quite liberating, and I know a few women who wear one and none of them were forced into it either. I like a bit of variety anyway. I'd rather see a muslim woman in a burqa than some fat, lardy chav bird with her tits and love handles spilling over her clothes. How some of them go out thinking they look "OK" never ceases to amaze me, don' t they ever looking in the mirror?
 
i reckon covering good looking women's faces is a disgusting violation of human rights

stoning women who cheat on you to death is a pretty good idea tho
 
RubberBuccaneer said:
The Burka is not a requisite of Islam, it's a cultural thing from the parts of the world around Pakistan/Afghanistan.

Repeat cultural not religious.

Completely correct.
There is no such command to be found in Al Qur'an and not even in some questionable hadith.
Same counts in fact for the chador and even for the simple "scarf" hidjab, but on those there are a few non-reliable traditions.

I also sense some confusion here:
Hint 1: burqah is not chador. I never saw any Muslim woman in a western country wearing a burqah. I saw a few wearing the chador. I saw much more wearing simply hijab. I saw the same amount not wearing even simple hijab. (and for the last two categories: No need to go the "the West" for that.)

On the other hand: Nobody in the West ever shows any compassion for us males who wear hijab following the Islamic commands that requires for modesty for both genders. I sense some sexism here.

salaam.
 
Aldebaran said:
On the other hand: Nobody in the West ever shows any compassion for us males who wear hijab following the Islamic commands that requires for modesty for both genders. I sense some sexism here.
perhaps not sexism so much as complete misunderstanding and ignorance?

i must admit i have very little clue as to what the dress 'rules' are and how they work, perhaps you could enlighten us?
 
I was just joking of course, but nevertheless: it is true that I was "forced" to wear our traditional garments since I was a little child :)

Modesty is a Quranic requirement for both genders.
A poster said he found the view of a man wearing "western" and the woman wearing hijab incosistent. That is completely correct if that man's clothing comes down to "shorts" and "short sleeves" etc..

Strictly speaking (falling back on what seems to have been custom in the early days of Islam) a man is allowed to uncover his torso, but his legs must be covered until at least half his calfs. (The same type of traditions forbid men to wear for example silk and gold.)

In practice however it is recommended for both genders to observe outmost modesty in their appearances.
You can obtain that easy enough when wearing "Western" style clothing too, which is in my view recommendable when you are in a "Western" country. For the simple reason that if as a Muslim you don't adapt to the local dress code (within the rules of modesty) you create the opposite effect: you draw all attention to you instead of trying to modestly blending in.

Aside from problems where women and girls are indeed "pushed", I observed that the last years many, mostly young girls and younger women, wear hijab in the West as a "statement". I don't agree with such a mindset.
Of course there are also among that group who simply do it because of their honest conviction that wearing hijab is a fundamental religious requirement.

The problem with the whole "hijab" question is that it was and is indeed used all over the world as a form of control (in various gradations) even when the women themselves do not "feel" it that way and even go out on the street to demonstrate against any possible reform.

If you want to read about the position of women in Islamic nations - especially the "Arab" ones - and from a sociological point of view, I can very much recommend the work of Fatima Mernissi. (a very well known Moroccan sociologue). I suppose her books also exist in English translations. She is a bit sharp too my taste now and then, especially when talking about Islam (of course because tackling the sociological impact of traditions who became part of Islam) but in my view she explains very well her well founded reasons for that too.
One can hardly defend a thesis that women were never abused or restricted by Islamic men abusing the religion and its traditions to serve their ambitions in patriarchal societies.

salaam.
 
I prefer the view taken by Kemal Attaturk....

Turkey is a muslim country but no women there wear any kind of hijab or burka
 
Aldebaran said:
If you want to read about the position of women in Islamic nations - especially the "Arab" ones - and from a sociological point of view, I can very much recommend the work of Fatima Mernissi. (a very well known Moroccan sociologue).
i googled her name and the book list looks very interesting... she was born in 1940 in a harem! wow, i thought harems died out centuries ago. :eek:

as for burqa, hijab, chador - i find it impossible to pass 'judgement' on people who dress in such as i have only known women who have chosen hijab and never known any who veil themselves as an obligation. except (perhaps) for my friend who married an iranian and wore a veil when they visited iran on holiday - she hated having to wear it, but at least it was only for a month.

myself and a girlfriend chose to dress modestly (by our interpretation) when we went to egypt, down to covering our hair. our primary reason was one of practicality - not wanting to get hassled - but then it turned into an opportunity to dress up. we took a selection of long skirts and headscarves ranging from tie-dyed hippy to rather glamorous glittery/tasselled numbers which made us look like a pair of mary magdalenes i'm sure! :D

i recall travelling through the sinai and coming to a barren crossroads where the driver stopped for no apparent reason. from behind some rocks emerged a young woman covered entirely in black flowing robes and veil. only her eyes and hands were visible. her eyes were outlined elaborately with kohl, her hands painted with henna, her fingers dripped with bejewelled rings, her wrists jingled with silver bracelets and she exuded an air of exteme sexuality and haughtiness. i found her fascinating. i'd never associated chador with sexual expression but she showed how much of 'sexuality' has nothing to do with exposing the body.

anyway, rambling on a bit, its an interesting subject. :)

in view of the dress codes for muslim men, what on earth were those taliban doing having their pictures taken wearing make-up? apparently some 'cultural tradition' of men being prettied up for photographs (and wearing high-heels apparently).
 
citygirl said:
the ignorance and insensitivity is showing again :rolleyes:

Not at all. I too thought this was a burger thread. Didn't see the q properly.

I know I_H_B can be a twat a lot but having a go when there is no need doesn't really help.
Ninja's comments that got him banned were far more ignorant and insensitive.

Hey ho!
 
Rohen said:
I prefer the view taken by Kemal Attaturk....

Turkey is a muslim country but no women there wear any kind of hijab or burka

Of course women wear hijab all over Turkey (you make me wonder on which planet you live) and in fact when you see a woman wearing it in Europe, many of them are Turkish.

An other curious thing pops up again in your comment: The aspect "dictatorship" seems lost when Westerners talk about that period in Turkish history. It only confirm the very curious Western trend to glorify dictators as soon as they find a reason (any reason will do) to see them as "Westernised".

salaam.
 
I've just had to google image the burkha, chador and hijab so I know which is which. As to whether I will remember is another matter :o
 
I was under the impression that when the Taleban took over Aghanistan, they enforced very rigid dress codes on both sexes. I seem to recall that even the length of the men's hair was regulated.
 
miss minnie said:
i googled her name and the book list looks very interesting... she was born in 1940 in a harem! wow, i thought harems died out centuries ago. :eek:

Polygamy is still legal in many (most) so called "Islamic" countries, most under restrictive mesures and sometimes also officially "discouraged". In others is is made illegal but in countries where the constitution defines Shari'a as the main source of Law it is in practice an impossibility to make it unlawful (because of it being allowed by the first source of shari'a, which is Al Qur'an).
The practice of having besides legal wives also concubines (even before marriage) is not totally extinct either, be it that the ordinary citizen would not be able to. Besides other problems - like the Quranic commands on the issue - polygamy is also not something the ordinary citizen would be able to afford. Many young people can't even afford to get married these days. (In Shia Islam temporary marriage is still practiced.)

except (perhaps) for my friend who married an iranian and wore a veil when they visited iran on holiday - she hated having to wear it, but at least it was only for a month.

Even in Iran it depends "where" you are (this includes "in which circles/locations you move about".)

i'd never associated chador with sexual expression but she showed how much of 'sexuality' has nothing to do with exposing the body.

Only imagine all the men and boys having to guess what is under it ;)... If you look closely you shall quickly notice how inventive girls are to send seducive signals "from beyond".
Courting "without courting" has its own methods and rules.

in view of the dress codes for muslim men, what on earth were those taliban doing having their pictures taken wearing make-up? apparently some 'cultural tradition' of men being

Not everyone in Aghanistan was/is "taliban". Secondly, since ancient times parts of that region are "identified" with a homosexual inclination. Some link this to historical Greek influence, most put it to Persian influence, but no matter where you would look for "cause or reason", it exsists (like it exists in every society on the globe).
With lawlessness and confusions following the attack by the USA I was not so very surprised to hear about excesses flaring up (boys who were abducted or otherwise and forced to be "boy lover"). I have no confirmation of such incidental reports, but I think it well possible that such cases exposed an exsisting problem.

When you talk about "make-up" however: if you mean that they wear kohl around the eyes, that has a (very ancient) medical reason. Kohl is said to protect against eye-infections (desinfective). I wouldn't know about the truth of this widely spread belief... never experimented with that. :)

salaam.
 
geminisnake said:
Not at all. I too thought this was a burger thread. Didn't see the q properly.

I know I_H_B can be a twat a lot but having a go when there is no need doesn't really help.
Ninja's comments that got him banned were far more ignorant and insensitive.

Hey ho!

well, we agree on something then!!

you're quite welcome to think what you like...doesn't change a thing from where i'm sitting...

HEY HO!
 
Aldebaran said:
When you talk about "make-up" however: if you mean that they wear kohl around the eyes, that has a (very ancient) medical reason. Kohl is said to protect against eye-infections (desinfective).

I thought people in hot countries also wear kohl as it acts kind of like sunglasses. It deflects sunlight. It was worn in ancient Egypt.
 
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