Fucking shitty Apple 'Bonjour' service screws up Vista

[oicur0t]

Got this bit wrong then: What are you on about?

I'd imagine that Adobe make far more money out of Windows than Mac and the last time you came up with this, "they're pissed off with Microsoft" comment, I produced a far more recent article saying it was Apple they were pissed off with. In other words, your point is totally redundant.

Don't they develop some of their products for Windows first now too?

As for "proper machines". Jeez. get over yourself.

I bought 35 imac's because adobe cs2/3 did not work well enough on windows. Adobe products sell macs and vice versa. Adobe now do all their demo presentations on apple hardware. They have also finally stopped blaming each other for the server saving bug that has been around for several generations.

In regard to blaming ms, as some people have suggested, they have the right to amend and change the os and fuck up peoples software. They offer no warranty for any third party software.

 

[editor]

I just popped in to say that your righteous anger over this issue is tinged with glee ed.

No, it's not. I was just really damn annoyed that my new machine had been borked by a piece of software that had installed itself on my machine without permission.

I'd be just as angry if it were by Roxio, MS or whoever.

 

[DotCommunist]

No, it's not. I was just really damn annoyed that my new machine had been borked by a piece of software that had installed itself on my machine without permission.

I'd be just as angry if it were by Roxio, MS or whoever.

yeah, i get that the issue has annoyed you, as it would me. But I do sense a certain ferocious glee, a rage tinged with joy at laying the verbal smackdown on an apple related third part uninvited whatever.

I might be reading too much into it and you might not be loving the chance to righteously castigate apple.

 

[editor]

yeah, i get that the issue has annoyed you, as it would me. But I do sense a certain ferocious glee, a rage tinged with joy at laying the verbal smackdown on an apple related third part uninvited whatever..

There's not much point me bothering to post if you're just going to make up what I'm supposedly thinking.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I bought 35 imac's because adobe cs2/3 did not work well enough on windows. Adobe products sell macs and vice versa. Adobe now do all their demo presentations on apple hardware. They have also finally stopped blaming each other for the server saving bug that has been around for several generations.

They are still however fighting with Apple. (I have no particular information as to whether they are also fighting MS - it wouldn't surprise me if they were actually, they want to establish themselves as basically another OS, with AIR and Flash and Acrobat etc). For instance, the Flash plugin on OS X is a complete joke - it's better on Linux.

 

[DotCommunist]

Microsoft and PC progs do this sort of fuck up all the time so I'll be sure to post a THREAD OF RAGE about it

Or I might be bothered if such fuckups weren't myriad and regular on PC's


Anyway. Let's not turn it into a pc vs mac thread, I know not enough of either to argue the toss.

 

[oicur0t]

Microsoft and PC progs do this sort of fuck up all the time so I'll be sure to post a THREAD OF RAGE about it

Or I might be bothered if such fuckups weren't myriad and regular on PC's


Anyway. Let's not turn it into a pc vs mac thread, I know not enough of either to argue the toss.

This isn't a mac vs pc issue for sure. It is about who is responsible when something goes wrong. It is the person you pay to deliver, in this case adobe. Apple have updated and fixed the bug, but adobe have not delivered this to their customers of cs2. Meanwhile ms just built an os however which way they want.

 

[gnoriac]

All weird as far as I'm concerned. As soon as Bonjour installed itself as a lump of software I neither asked for nor wanted, I deleted it. Equally, I would never install Vista on any of my machines, and unless 7 turns out to be quality, XP will be the last Microsoft OS I will ever use.

About time Adobe started supporting linux IMHO.

 

[oicur0t]

All weird as far as I'm concerned. As soon as Bonjour installed itself as a lump of software I neither asked for nor wanted, I deleted it. Equally, I would never install Vista on any of my machines, and unless 7 turns out to be quality, XP will be the last Microsoft OS I will ever use.

About time Adobe started supporting linux IMHO.

I never trust anything in windows, but I only use it in either virtual machines, which I can roll back or non essential installations which I can trash.I don't trust os x either, but can roll back with time machine.

Linux could have the same potential issues, this is not an os problem. Adobe could install something and fuck up any os, if it is poorly implemented. Bonjour is based on open source software and probably runs on Linux. Adobe could implement a poor version then not update it too.

 

[editor]

I never trust anything in windows.....

Now you're edging this thread back into MAC ROOLZ/PC SUX territory.

Zillions of people and businesses use Windows for their precious data, livelihoods and files every day, and the vast majority have no problems at all.

 

[cybertect]

No, it's certainly not a Mac vs PC question. It's about qualification of software to run on particular configurations.

I ran into an issue this week with Internet Explorer for Mac v5.2.3, which has Sun's Java VM 1.3.1 actually embedded inside the application (you can open the IE package and see the binary). An odd decision, but that's what MS chose to do.

Our Oracle Financials system at work is only qualified to work with IE 5.2 and JVM 1.3 - we're dropping Oracle and didn't want to spend £40K upgrading to the current Oracle EBS that's qualified with more modern configurations.

Now MS stopped developing and supporting IE for Mac back in December 2005. I did an upgrade on to Mac OS X 10.5 to support the new accounts system and it breaks IE's built-in JVM. It works with 10.4 but it won't work with 10.5.

We can use Safari or Firefox instead, which will then use JVM 1.4 that Apple supply with the OS, but it has a few annoying quirks.

More critical on one Mac that I upgraded was the presence of an old 3rd party Kernel Extension (I didn't bother finding out which one) which killed printing dead under 10.5, causing any application you were printing from to crash. A pretty major bug.

I had to do a clean re-install of 10.5 to get printing services back.

Got this bit wrong then:

Well, it was accurate in March 2007. They didn't know of any major issues at that time. Their statement was an alert to users that they wouldn't be going out of their way to discover if there were any others.

An unsupported configuration won't have gone through any of the rigourous formal testing that a supported one will. Sure, they could fire up Photoshop on a Vista machine and see if they can use it casually, but that's about as far as it might go.

Moreover, any bugs (small or large) that do come to their attention will not be fixed.

As they made quite clear two years ago, you use it at your own risk.

e2a: bugs, by their very nature are un

 

[editor]

As they made quite clear two years ago, you use it at your own risk.

e2a: bugs, by their very nature are un

I don't know about you, but I don't count a damaging third party program installing itself in my machine without permission a 'bug.'

The 'criticism' section in the wikipedia entry for the program sums up the problems Bonjour has been causing some people:

Bonjour services are installed without explicit user permission and the software is often not necessary for running the programs that bundle it. While there are no documented conflicts with anti-virus software packages or the Microsoft Windows operating system, some corporate firewalls may raise a warning when Bonjour attempts to broadcast the availability of network services.

Some technical forums have reported that the service can break a configured internet connection and also can conflict with system files on certain versions of Windows. Other programs with which it interferes include Juniper Network Connect, a VPN client.

Stability of the software varies with each version. Misbehaviour on larger corporate or ISP networks caused when Bonjour issues excessive or malfunctioning broadcasts is not welcomed by IT managers, especially given the limited technical support Apple provides for this product. Users who manually disable the service will often find it re-enabled by Apple's regular software updates

Like many zeroconfig networking tools, user customization is non-existent. This often causes unnecessary and unwanted network traffic that cannot be stopped unless the service is disabled completely.

Older versions of Bonjour have compromised network security and even the most up-to-date versions are known to cause issues with Zero Configuration tools offered on modern laptop computers.

Uninstalling the software from Windows is usually problematic, due to a poorly implemented and deliberately hidden uninstaller. After uninstalling Bonjour, it commonly leaves processes running in the background. mdnsresponder doesn't show up in one's TCP/IP stack (and causing corruption) using tools such as lspfix.exe until after killing the leftover processess, deleting the process files and then rebooting.

The method by which Bonjour is installed on a computer without notice and the fact that it does not come with a true uninstaller means Apple Computer and the Bonjour service may contravene strict European laws governing that have been used against Microsoft in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonjour_(software)

*usual Wikipedia caveats apply

 

[oicur0t]

Now you're edging this thread back into MAC ROOLZ/PC SUX territory.

Zillions of people and businesses use Windows for their precious data, livelihoods and files every day, and the vast majority have no problems at all.

I also said the same about OSX you muppet!!! With Windows and OS X I always have a backup plan.

Read the post!

 

[editor]

I also said the same about OSX you muppet!!! With Windows and OS X I always have a backup plan.

You said:

I never trust anything in windows, but I only use it in either virtual machines, which I can roll back or non essential installations which I can trash.I don't trust os x either, but can roll back with time machine.

I read that as being rather damning of the platform's abilities. Sorry if I got it it wrong.

 

[oicur0t]

You said: I read that as being rather damning of the platform's abilities. Sorry if I got it it wrong.

Two platforms listed. both with a roll back plan if something goes wrong. Should be standard practice with 3rd party applications. Your machine has not been tested until you install it, so no software has a guarantee it will work and every licence says the specific publisher will not be held responsible if something goes wrong with your system. It's more of a risk on windows, not because of windows itself, mainly because of the vast array of software and hardware. It is a risk on any platform, the more you install, the greater the likelyhood of problems.

In IT this is called change management. Not something a consumer should have to deal with but in all essence is a great idea. Windows has system restore points to deal with problems. OS X has time machine. Your case only highlights the need for such. You have software from three different vendors trying to work together. All 3 have some part to play.

 

[editor]

In IT this is called change management. Not something a consumer should have to deal with but in all essence is a great idea.

I think you're being a bit "pro" considering the context of this thread, but, yes, everyone should back up their stuff as a matter of course and I could have got things (temporarily) fixed by using a restore point.

But as illustrated in the wikipedia quote above, Bonjour is particularly and unnecessarily problematic for Windows users. I certainly don't think I'll be inviting it back on my machine in a hurry (assuming if it has the courtesy to ask next time, of course).

 

[oicur0t]

I think you're being a bit "pro" considering the context of this thread, but, yes, everyone should back up their stuff as a matter of course and I could have got things (temporarily) fixed by using a restore point.

But as illustrated in the wikipedia quote above, Bonjour is particularly and unnecessarily problematic for Windows users. I certainly don't think I'll be inviting it back on my machine in a hurry (assuming if it has the courtesy to ask next time, of course).

But that's my point about being IT pro. You are a consumer. Change management should be given to the end user, not something you have to even think about. Ideally all software will a ask the user to create a system restore point before an install or do some such task, by default. It should be built in. Backups should be built in. If adobe, apple or ms did this, it would be a relatively mundane thread.

Bonjour works really well, if everyone uses it - i.e. In a mac context it's great. But unless you are on a predominantly apple network then it's not much cop anyway. It's basically used to get apple machines to talk well with each other. Adobe have just decided to cobble it in with cs2 to save them writing their own code. It comes as a part of version cue which is a half way house bit of software anyway. I would suggest no one install version cue as you will most likely never use it. It will sit there doing bugger all for anyone.

The comments about CS2 on this thread though show Adobe's slack attitude to their releases. Never mind mac vs pc. CS2 barely even ran on intel macs and they would not patch or update the software, you had to buy cs3 to fix it. I had to wait 9 months to migrate from windows to os x, so I had a platform stable enough to use for our designers. Trust me, if there is problem, they will not patch it. The code to fix you bonjour problem has been fixed by apple. I doubt you will ever see a fix come through adobe. Adobe are the people you paid to deliver and they have let you down.

I like apple products, I like adobe products, I use linux everyday and yes I even like some fab MS products. They all make mistakes, but if they fix them then fine, if they don't then fuck em.

 

[editor]

I like apple products, I like adobe products, I use linux everyday and yes I even like some fab MS products. They all make mistakes, but if they fix them then fine, if they don't then fuck em.

Amen to that squire.

The program I use the most every day hasn't been updated since 2002 and it works on everything!

 

[Structaural]

But that's my point about being IT pro. You are a consumer. Change management should be given to the end user, not something you have to even think about. Ideally all software will a ask the user to create a system restore point before an install or do some such task, by default. It should be built in. Backups should be built in. If adobe, apple or ms did this, it would be a relatively mundane thread.

Bonjour works really well, if everyone uses it - i.e. In a mac context it's great. But unless you are on a predominantly apple network then it's not much cop anyway. It's basically used to get apple machines to talk well with each other. Adobe have just decided to cobble it in with cs2 to save them writing their own code. It comes as a part of version cue which is a half way house bit of software anyway. I would suggest no one install version cue as you will most likely never use it. It will sit there doing bugger all for anyone.

The comments about CS2 on this thread though show Adobe's slack attitude to their releases. Never mind mac vs pc. CS2 barely even ran on intel macs and they would not patch or update the software, you had to buy cs3 to fix it. I had to wait 9 months to migrate from windows to os x, so I had a platform stable enough to use for our designers. Trust me, if there is problem, they will not patch it. The code to fix you bonjour problem has been fixed by apple. I doubt you will ever see a fix come through adobe. Adobe are the people you paid to deliver and they have let you down.

I like apple products, I like adobe products, I use linux everyday and yes I even like some fab MS products. They all make mistakes, but if they fix them then fine, if they don't then fuck em.

yep...
Adobe do my head in, they've really gone downhill lately, and I've used their products since 1988.

We have a studio full of dual G5's running CS2: sweet, no problems (once the completely corrupt AdobeCue was deleted from 100 machines). Then we upgraded to CS3 late last year as we got a load of refab Intels. Dutch versions. Adobe didn't even bother issuing a Dutch 13.02 update to Illustrator, leaving us stuck on 13.01 which has some serious bugs (too small a market to support apparently - but they'll take our €1200 grand each for the software).

So we upgrade the entire studio to English versions. Update to 13.02 breaks PDF functionality. Any fixes? Yeah buy CS4.

Wankers, it's not even 64-bit on the Mac.

Adobe, going the way of Quark in the 90s. Arrogant, no decent dev forum support, bugs not fixed - just sold as an upgrade, bloaty.
Photoshop is their jewel, but inDesign CS4 still has the export PDF bug from CS1.

oops/rant