Fucking shitty Apple 'Bonjour' service screws up Vista

[pk]

Your analogy is flawed.

If you put in dodgy petrol with secret, hidden ingredients that no-one told you about and it made your car grind to a halt, who would you blame?

Thing is, there's no really point trying to reason with you on this one because, in your world, Apple never, ever does anything wrong ever and no-one ever can have a legitimate gripe against them.

Well clearly that isn't true, as I conceded in my first post that I didn't like the apparent slyness of Apple's covert installation.

Though Adobe should have made it into a seperate installer.

Next you'll be telling me that QuickTime Pro for Windows is in fact a brilliant app!

It's certainly better than WMV for Apple machines!

 

[Crispy]

I can't fucking stand these threads.

 

[editor]

I can't fucking stand these threads.

Yet you felt compelled to post in it no less than eight times!

 

[Crispy]

Yet you felt compelled to post in it no less than eight times!

Precisely my point. It's like picking a scab. I have the relentless urge to respond to every italicised nitpicking post with a yet greater amount of italicised nitpickery. You answered your own question in your OP and the rest has just been useless bickering about whose 'fault' it is.

 

[editor]

Precisely my point. It's like picking a scab. I have the relentless urge to respond to every italicised nitpicking post with a yet greater amount of italicised nitpickery. You answered your own question in your OP and the rest has just been useless bickering about whose 'fault' it is.

May I introduce you to the delights of the 'ignore thread' function?

It really is a wonderful thing and perfect for these kind of threads. Just think of the anguish you could save yourself from with a simple click!

 

[Crispy]

I shouldn't ignore threads on a bulletin board I'm supposed to be moderating.

 

[editor]

I shouldn't ignore threads on a bulletin board I'm supposed to be moderating.

Why not? You're not expected to follow every thread and other mods can still view the thread - and you'll still get all the reported posts if it kicks off.

That way, you'll avoid getting wound up and you can always do what I do and just take a look in occasionally when you're feeling sufficiently calm.

I was getting well and truly wound up by a certain thread a while ago but now I only take a peek every couple of days or so when I'm feeling chilled. Problem solved!

Why not do the same if a thread is getting to you and spare yourself the unnecessary grief?

 

[Crispy]

I can't believe you do that!

 

[editor]

I can't believe you do that!

Only on one thread at the moment. After all, if I'm getting really wound up by something, surely it's best to lead by example and use the 'ignore' function that I'm always telling people to use themselves?

*goes off to pick the scab and take a look at the ignored thread

 

[Crispy]

Well I never ignored a poster since I became a mod, so just assumed I'd never ignore a thread. I suppose it could be ok, but I'd prefer not to I think

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Clearly someone decided it was useful and worthwhile to include with the application you installed it came with

And this is the problem - users should be the ones that decide if something is useful to them, not the fucking programmers/ software companies.

Fuck the Microsoft vs Apple bollocks, anything that installs stuff without giving you the option not to is wrong, whoever it's created by.

 

[pk]

For the record I've reported both Crispy and Editor, erm, to the mods.

 

[pk]

And this is the problem - users should be the ones that decide if something is useful to them, not the fucking programmers/ software companies.

Fuck the Microsoft vs Apple bollocks, anything that installs stuff without giving you the option not to is wrong, whoever it's created by.

I disagree. Any OS that allows software to install itself without expressed permission is flawed and badly written.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

You mean like the way that vista and 7 ask really clearly?

If you think your installing an Adobe product and it installs other software, thats Adobes fault as you expect to be able to trust a company like that not to install other things.

 

[sim667]

Dodgy drivers? How is that Microsoft's fault?

it was more to do with the blue screen of death...... i didnt read the text as i had about 10 seconds to post oooooopsie


Thought windows was plug and play these days?

thats a bit better

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I disagree. Any OS that allows software to install itself without expressed permission is flawed and badly written.

Rubbish, everyone moans about the annoying "are you sure you want to do this" bullshit in vista, and rightly so.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

it was more to do with the blue screen of death...... i didnt read the text as i had about 10 seconds to post oooooopsie


Thought windows was plug and play these days?

It is, but to get best performance from your kit, you still need the right driver. If its badly written, there isn't much MS can do and where apple have a huge advantage as they know what hardware they are writing for. Most blue screens of death are caused by bad drivers or hardware errors.

 

[cybertect]

If you think your installing an Adobe product and it installs other software, thats Adobes fault as you expect to be able to trust a company like that not to install other things.

But it's part of the CS Suite and provides support for the VersionCue service? Adobe were touting it as quite a major feature when CS2 was launched (and continue to do so)

[detailed description of VersionCue CS2]

Did you expect to grant a separate agreement to install the BSD networking stack when you installed XP?

I'll grant that it's not something that everyone will use, but then again, how many people make use of Photoshop's Twirl filter (apart from dumb paedophiles, that is )?

CS4 has plenty of 3rd party elements included with it. They buy in the FLEXnet licence management from from Acresso. Check out the 'Legal Notices' PDF in your installation of Photoshop and you'll find licence notices for PHP, Apache, OpenSSL and a host of software written by people other than Adobe.

The core database engine behind Adobe Lightroom is SQLite. When you install Lightroom, you're getting a SQLite installation too (which I've found handy to have for something else I was doing on one occasion).

TBH, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a large product like Photoshop that doesn't include at least some 3rd party elements.

 

[Crispy]

TBH, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a large product like Photoshop that doesn't include at least some 3rd party elements.

Yep. Especially in the open source world, where everything's dependent on all sorts of packages

 

[UnderOpenSky]

doesn't[/i] include at least some 3rd party elements.

That was sort of my point, in response to pk's moaning about an OS that lets things be installed without you knowing. You have given permission to install the software and whatever comes with it.

 

[pk]

That was sort of my point, in response to pk's moaning about an OS that lets things be installed without you knowing. You have given permission to install the software and whatever comes with it.

So there's no specific permission required for Bonjour, it's bundled within CS2 and gets installed regardless??

Then the problem lies with Adobe, not Microsoft and not Apple.

If it were the other way around - I'd be pissed off!

 

[pk]

Rubbish, everyone moans about the annoying "are you sure you want to do this" bullshit in vista, and rightly so.

I'm still confused about why it didn't kick in for the individual software contained within CS2... unless the permission to install assumes permission for everything within.

Which kind of goes back to the point I was making - CS2 has been around for years - if the Vista designers didn't test their product properly by installing one of the most popular media tools on the planet, at least part of the blame should be directed at them, no?

If my Mac connections died just because I installed Photoshop, I'd be fucked off with whichever version of OSX I was running... unthinkable that Mac would release an OSX that hadn't been tested with Photoshop!

 

[Chz]

At least I know why Bonjour is running on my network even after I went and eradicated iTunes from it (we like Songbird very much, thank-you).

It's certainly one of the more annoying services to get rid of on Windows. It acts like malware.

 

[oicur0t]

this is clearly an issue with cs2 and recent os compatibilty. Check that cs2 is up to date. It clearly is a non standard or out of date installation that has been superceeded by apple releases. If it is part of an adobe install it is adobe's fault. Clearly it is not malware, it is a poor release. Cs2 on windows had many such problems. We found among 20 user, 25% could often not even print or save in illustrator!

Software comes in bundles, the biggest are suites. Do you really want to explicitly want to approve all elements of these installers?

 

[editor]

Software comes in bundles, the biggest are suites. Do you really want to explicitly want to approve all elements of these installers?

I installed Photoshop CS2. That was it. It then updated itself and Bonjour fucked up my system.

 

[cybertect]

Adobe warns CS2 not Vista-compatible: cnet, 22 March 2007

Adobe, poised to release Creative Suite 3 next week, said it will not support Windows Vista on the current version.

The company released a document earlier this month describing its operating systems support plans.

Running Creative Suite 2.0 on Windows Vista is "not recommended", Adobe said, and it will not update those products for Vista.

"While some of its components, including Adobe InDesign CS2, Illustrator CS2 and Photoshop CS2, install and run under Windows Vista with only minor known issues, other components such as Acrobat 7.0 Professional do not support Windows Vista," according to the statement.

 

[pk]

Adobe warns CS2 not Vista-compatible: cnet, 22 March 2007

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Adobe are thoroughly pissed off with Microsoft, and this is how that feeling manifests itself.

They're returning to the company that gave them the proper machines to start them up in business, upon which the Adobe brand was built, and rightly so.

 

[editor]

Adobe warns CS2 not Vista-compatible: cnet, 22 March 2007

Got this bit wrong then:

While some of its components, including Adobe InDesign CS2, Illustrator CS2 and Photoshop CS2, install and run under Windows Vista with only minor known issues

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Adobe are thoroughly pissed off with Microsoft, and this is how that feeling manifests itself.

They're returning to the company that gave them the proper machines to start them up in business, upon which the Adobe brand was built, and rightly so.

What are you on about?

I'd imagine that Adobe make far more money out of Windows than Mac and the last time you came up with this, "they're pissed off with Microsoft" comment, I produced a far more recent article saying it was Apple they were pissed off with. In other words, your point is totally redundant.

Don't they develop some of their products for Windows first now too?

As for "proper machines". Jeez. get over yourself.

 

[oicur0t]

I installed Photoshop CS2. That was it. It then updated itself and Bonjour fucked up my system.

Then I would blame adobe. In reference to the installers, you mentioned this earlier about accusing it of being malware because of not getting an explicit installer. This is how such suites work.

If adobe cannot package up and deliver a component of cs2 without a problem it's down to them. As much as you might blame apple or microsoft it is not their fault or responsibilty. Legally your licence is with them.

 

[DotCommunist]

I just popped in to say that your righteous anger over this issue is tinged with glee ed.