Fucking shitty Apple 'Bonjour' service screws up Vista

[jæd]

I'm not even sure how it got on my machine seeing as I installed CS2. It did appear as *Apple* Bonjour though so I'm blaming them and Adobe for sneakily shunting their shit on my machine.

PS The article about Bonjour screwing up Vista dates from only ten days ago.

Bonjour is in Photoshop CS2 as well. Have you installed that...?

"If you’ve installed software by Apple such as iTunes, software by Adobe such as Premiere Pro, Photoshop CS2, Dreamweaver CS3 the chances are there’s already a Bonjour folder in your Program Files. "
http://forum.mechcom.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=19111&sid=987ea8b35cfba8837691de24a46b7a52

Photoshop CS2 was released in April 2005...

 

[editor]

So its you and a select few who hit some obscure bug and are bleating loudly that software has a bug,

Ah, OK. So you've no problem with potentially damaging third party programs being installed on your machine without your knowledge, then?

I guess silly old me should just stop my 'bleating' that some program I didn't even want in the first place screwed up my internet connection and forced me to fuck about in arcane command prompts because - err - my processor has some flaws in 'certain complex micro-architectural conditions', none of which have materialised or caused me any problems at all.

I have to say I find your logic utterly baffling here. My brand new machine was fucked because of some Apple app I'd never heard of and it took me ages to work out what was wrong. Wouldn't you be annoyed?

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I am always getting little notes on my screen inviting me to download bonjour but I've always ignored them because I don't trust Apple.

Sure you ahve the skillz to sort this out ed but it would be a fucking disaster for me

Yeah, I constantly get the add new quicktime etc bollocks, but just ignore it, I'm definitely not downloading bonjour now. What a crock of shit.

 

[Crispy]

Only worry if you have Vista SP2. The problem is not reported on any other OS version, and the functionality that bonjour provides is very useful if there's more than 1 computer on your local network.

 

[jæd]

I have to say I find your logic utterly baffling here. My brand new machine was fucked because of some Apple app I'd never heard of and it took me ages to work out what was wrong. Wouldn't you be annoyed?

If it was due to Bonjour on Photoshop CS2 you're complaining that an application from 4 years ago is conflicting with a much newer O/S...?

 

[cybertect]

Hmm. The Apple Developer Technical Q&A for Bonjour has an interesting note.

Windows

Windows has supported IPv4 link-local addressing since Windows 98, but communication between link-local and routable IP addresses is not automatically enabled as required by RFC 3927. The following commands, typed at a DOS prompt, will enable mixed-network communication on Windows. In place of "put_my_address_here" and "put_my_link_local_address_here", put the Windows machine's own IP addresses.

route add 169.254.0.0 mask 255.255.0.0 put_my_address_here
route add 0.0.0.0 mask 0.0.0.0 put_my_link_local_address_here

Note that because these commands need to include your current routable or link-local IP address, you would have to re-do the commands every time your IP address changes. Therefore, the commands listed here are most useful for developers creating hardware products that use Bonjour, not for end users. When you install Bonjour for Windows, these routing table settings are automatically installed and maintained for you.

[emphasis added]

So, the insertion of the default route to the local host (which is what Microsoft advise you delete in their note) is a work-around for an incomplete implementation of the IETF's IPv4 link-local standard by Windows...

The sequence of events seems to be thus

- boot Vista with while DHCP is enabled but no DHCP server is available (e.g. cable not plugged in, I guess)
- Vista obtains a default (link-local) 169.254.x.x APIPA IP address (as no DHCP server available)
- Bonjour inserts the 0.0.0.0 route to that address
- computer eventually connects to a network
- computer obtains a routable IP address from the DHCP server
- Bonjour fails to update the first static route to redirect traffic to the new, routable address (for whatever reason)

I guess there's something about Vista's notifications to Services of a change of IP address that's different to XP. I don't know enough about how Windows does that kind of thing internally to speculate where it breaks or why BfW didn't update its route.

There's certainly been one change from XP to Vista, in that Vista tries to obtain a DHCP address for only six seconds before assigning an APIPA IP address, instead of three minutes under XP. If you have a very slow-responding DHCP server, it's possible this might exacerbate any problem (though you're not going to get any network access in the first instance anyhow if you can't get a DHCP address).

 

[sim667]

Bonjour is really really good as far as apple networking goes......

I cant deal with pc's so wouldnt know about problems with bonjour in it.....

 

[cybertect]

@editor: BTW, did you try installing Bonjour for Windows 1.0.6 to see if it fixed the problem?

 

[editor]

@editor: BTW, did you try installing Bonjour for Windows 1.0.6 to see if it fixed the problem?

I don't want it on my machine thanks.

 

[editor]

Only worry if you have Vista SP2. The problem is not reported on any other OS version, and the functionality that bonjour provides is very useful if there's more than 1 computer on your local network.

What? It caused problems on my SP1 machine and it offers no useful functionality that I've asked for or want. It installed without asking and screwed up my internet connection.

 

[pk]

Naaa. From what I can fathom, the onus is on MS to design a system that doesn't fall over when faced with a simple 4 year old Mac app.

Bet the fix patch comes from MS and not Apple.

 

[pk]

What? It caused problems on my SP1 machine and it offers no useful functionality that I've asked for or want. It installed without asking and screwed up my internet connection.

Again - Vista problem

 

[editor]

Naaa. From what I can fathom, the onus is on MS to design a system that doesn't fall over when faced with a simple 4 year old Mac app.

It was Apple's sneakily installed app that fucked up my machine, not Vista. I know it's hard for you to accept that Apple could ever do anything wrong ever, but when it comes to PC software they really are a bit shit, and they don't see too bothered about it either.

Have you read the customer feedback comments on their QuickTime Pro page? It's probably the worst set of comments I've ever read for any mainstream product, and Apple don't seem to be in much of a hurry to fix things.

Still, it looks like I've got their piece of shit off my machine now, so all is well.

 

[jæd]

Naaa. From what I can fathom, the onus is on MS to design a system that doesn't fall over when faced with a simple 4 year old Mac app.

Bet the fix patch comes from MS and not Apple.

For Apple to fix it they would have to release a patch for an Adobe application for a bit of code they signed off on four years ago. Unlikely.

For Adobe to fix it they would have to release a patch for a four year old application. Likely, but I wouldn't hold my breath...

For Microsoft to fix it they would just have to patch their networking stack. Most likely.

 

[fen_boy]

Bet the fix patch comes from MS and not Apple.

Even if it did it wouldn't necessarily mean MS were at fault.

 

[pk]

Even if it did it wouldn't necessarily mean MS were at fault.

Any OS that permits a 3rd party app to install itself without expressed permission is at fault. This is why so many trojans work.

 

[Crispy]

What? It caused problems on my SP1 machine and it offers no useful functionality that I've asked for or want. It installed without asking and screwed up my internet connection.

Oh, well your OP specifically mentioned SP2, so excuse me for running ahead of myself.

 

[Lollygagger]

Any OS that permits a 3rd party app to install itself without expressed permission is at fault. This is why so many trojans work.

Wasn't Bonjour installed at the same time as CS2..?

 

[editor]

Oh, well your OP specifically mentioned SP2, so excuse me for running ahead of myself.

Tsk. Pay attention at the back! You're the second person not to have bothered reading the opening post properly, and you seemed to have completely missed my subsequent post where I corrected Sunray on the very same point.

The very next sentence in my opening post says:

The Redmond company indicated that all Vista editions could be affected, whether from the RTM, SP1 or SP2 releases.

 

[Crispy]

Wasn't Bonjour installed at the same time as CS2..?

This sort of thing happens all the time. I installed an app the other day that installed a whole load of MS stuff as well without asking me first.

 

[asbestos]

Fucking shitty Apple 'Bonjour' service screws up my Vista.

 

[Sunray]

Ah, OK. So you've no problem with potentially damaging third party programs being installed on your machine without your knowledge, then?

I guess silly old me should just stop my 'bleating' that some program I didn't even want in the first place screwed up my internet connection and forced me to fuck about in arcane command prompts because - err - my processor has some flaws in 'certain complex micro-architectural conditions', none of which have materialised or caused me any problems at all.

I have to say I find your logic utterly baffling here. My brand new machine was fucked because of some Apple app I'd never heard of and it took me ages to work out what was wrong. Wouldn't you be annoyed?

Clearly someone decided it was useful and worthwhile to include with the application you installed it came with.

My point was highlighting that there are lots of bugs in loads of places, some that effect you some that don't.

Its a very imperfect system and its got ever more imperfect the more complex they've got and now they are easily the most complex thing humanity makes. Interestingly though, as they have got more complex peoples tolerance of flaws has gone down.

 

[editor]

Its a very imperfect system and its got ever more imperfect the more complex they've got and now they are easily the most complex thing humanity makes. Interestingly though, as they have got more complex peoples tolerance of flaws has gone down.

Sneaking in an unwanted program, having your entire internet connection mysteriously vanish and then having to employ arcane command line in instructions to put things back is rather more than a little 'flaw' in my book.

 

[editor]

Fucking shitty Apple 'Bonjour' service screws up my Vista.

The current title is adequate, thanks.

 

[sim667]

Sneaking in an unwanted program, having your entire internet connection mysteriously vanish and then having to employ arcane command line in instructions to put things back is rather more than a little 'flaw' in my book.

Im not convinced its as big a flaw as this

 

[pk]

This sort of thing happens all the time. I installed an app the other day that installed a whole load of MS stuff as well without asking me first.

Difference is, the Mac will just ignore MS apps.

 

[Crispy]

Difference is, the Mac will just ignore MS apps.

my point wasn't really MS specific; the mac isn't alone in this either. plenty of software comes 'bundled' with 3rd party stuff to provide functionality that the 2nd party cannot - regardless of platform.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Im not convinced its as big a flaw as this

Dodgy drivers? How is that Microsoft's fault?

 

[pk]

If you had a car that stalled everytime the cellphone rang, would you blame the phone??

 

[editor]

If you had a car that stalled everytime the cellphone rang, would you blame the phone??

Your analogy is flawed.

If you put in dodgy petrol with secret, hidden ingredients that no-one told you about and it made your car grind to a halt, who would you blame?

Thing is, there's no really point trying to reason with you on this one because, in your world, Apple never, ever does anything wrong ever and no-one ever can have a legitimate gripe against them.

Next you'll be telling me that QuickTime Pro for Windows is in fact a brilliant app!