Fucking essay cheating plagiaristic c-ntitude

[catinthehat]

This stuff happens when people see their education in terms of credentials to get higher pay/status rather than for just the sake of it. Educational institutions cut back to the bone what they provide, students respond by cutting back what they put in - end justifies the means. We have introduced vivas for all written work that is not done under supervised conditions - so if an essay has been ripped off a few supplementary questions should reveal it. New students get a session on plagarism - pointing out that a simple google of a phrase or two will show up a cut an paste and the student who writes that they 'done an experiment what showed' is unlikely to go on elegantly deconstruct Cartesian dualism or whatnot.

 

[mrs quoad]

It isn't easy and it isn't common, but I have heard tell of it happening...

qv: Gillian McKeith.

But someone who's blagged a false PhD isn't going to last 2 minutes in the type of job they'd need a PhD to land...

 

[Boycey]

i know someone who was considering it as a way to pay for her masters. we both agreed that it was deeply wrong but so is her situation, she didn't in the end... well not yet anyway.

i think you'll find that the people who offer these services aren't exactly doing it for the love of fucking with the academic system.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

What about the walter mitty types who pretend to be doctors, been a fair few cases where they've gotten away with it for weeks or months.

 

[Boycey]

someone who's blagged a false PhD isn't going to last 2 minutes in the type of job they'd need a PhD to land...

and other people who need PhDs to get to the job's they belong in need lots of money to get there.

 

[untethered]

I suspect the current plagiarism situation won't last long. New technology has allowed people to easily buy cheating services online, but newer technology more widely implemented will very easily flush out the cheats.

One place I know asks for all coursework to be submitted as electronic documents and runs every single submission through a document analysis program. Over time this can very easily find not just whole pieces of cheating work but cheating passages within larger pieces. The system is also loaded with thousands of "example" essays available from pret-a-cheater commercial cheating services, web pages, book texts, etc. so they can prove not just that you didn't write a piece, but who did.

Short of hiring the same person to write every single piece of your coursework for your entire course, there really isn't a way to get round this.

 

[untethered]

and other people who need PhDs to get to the job's they belong in need lots of money to get there.

World discriminates in favour of people with more money shocker.

 

[Boycey]

World discriminates in favour of people with more money shocker.

except it doesn't when it's perfectly legal to provide a personal "example" dissertation, independantly researched for lots of money. more of an ethics cost money shocker.

i've seen my essays after coming through those machines and they're a fucking joke. parts i'd quoted and referenced weren't listed (the program used should have picked this up), the title- provided by lecturers, was. they may pick up on some very blatant c&p jobs but it won't stop the services mentioned in the OP.

FWIW there are lecturers i've spoken to who despair at the problem, you have a foreign student who is pretty much failing and has very little grasp of the language of the work they're turning in. yet everytime a piece of value is given in it is grade A material using a very advanced standard of english that isn't flagged by any programs because the material is fresh and the person who created it has no interest in making it available to the companies who provide academic checks. AFAIK the exam and university boards do not have jurisdiction on the personal internet use of students.

eta: the company my university uses for electronic checks says no penalty should be given when a piece scores less than "20% plagiarism", personally i don't think that's acceptable.

 

[butterfly child]

I suspect the current plagiarism situation won't last long. New technology has allowed people to easily buy cheating services online, but newer technology more widely implemented will very easily flush out the cheats.

One place I know asks for all coursework to be submitted as electronic documents and runs every single submission through a document analysis program. Over time this can very easily find not just whole pieces of cheating work but cheating passages within larger pieces. The system is also loaded with thousands of "example" essays available from pret-a-cheater commercial cheating services, web pages, book texts, etc. so they can prove not just that you didn't write a piece, but who did.

Short of hiring the same person to write every single piece of your coursework for your entire course, there really isn't a way to get round this.

Reading does this.

I've yet to be failed for plagiarism, so must be doing something right...

 

[phildwyer]

Reading does this.

I've yet to be failed for plagiarism, so must be doing something right...

Sorry if I've misunderstood, but are you saying that you do plagiarize but haven't been caught? Again, apologies if I've misunderstood.

 

[mattie]

Couldn't universities introduce more Viva's (or whatever they're called) to get around this.

There aren't many people that could fake an interview.

Vivas are generally used as a calibration tool, checking those at interfaces of graduations to make sure those getting 2:1s are more informed than those getting 2:2s. As such, only a few are chosen. This also means that vivas are portrayed as checking the fallibility of the departmnet's assessment process, not implicitly accusing someone of cheating.


There's also the problem of increasing class sizes - 10 years ago our engineering intake was 120, now we're at 210. We have 1 additional teaching fellow. It's getting harder and harder to treat students individually, which to be honest is playing into the hands of cheats.

The way we approach it is to get PhDs and Researchers to work alongside student projects to get a feel for people such that a general 'level' for each student can be found. The PhDs/researchers could be approached over a cup of tea if questions are raised over the standard of student's work - both if they're suspected of cheating and if they're failing - to see what individual solutions may be worked.

We also get them to give seminars individually, such that vast discrepancies between marked work and assessment of knowledge can be identified.

It's difficult, as we try to make assessment as objective as possible yet we need to keep a subjective view on it.....very, very risky if the student queries their grades which is becoming increasingly common as students are paying more and more for their degree.

 

[mattie]

This was made clear to us from the outset, but how are you going to prove such when essays are hand crafted for the individual?

Don't underestimate the intuition of the lecturer - there's always differences of opinion in all subjects, and in many cases a lecturer which teach with a certain slant. This necessarily influences the student's perspective, which comes through in writing. If somebody with a different background writes an essay, it contrasts against the others which immediately flags it - either as a good piece, or as a plagiarised piece. If it's too removed from the coverage of others then questions may be asked. It's terminology, concepts, favoured arguments, source material etc etc.

For example, I review for a handful of academic journals - a ballache in most cases - I can generally tell who the authors are (at least which group they work in) simply from the epistemological standpoint and emphasis placed on certain concepts at the expense of others. Misses the point of double-blind reviews but it's unavoidable.




Of course, this doesn't apply if the essay is written or plagiarised from those written at the same institution.

 

[mattie]

I don't.

Those people will be comprehensively fucked when they get into the workplace, and carry their attitude with them.

A Bachelors is a foot in the door. It's not - with consummate respect to Bachelors - lifelong evidence of unquestionable excellence.

I'd question whether or not its worth anyone's while to buy Masters coursework - but equally, someone who's buying in coursework is going to be *fairly rapidly* shafted in the workplace by the attitude that gets them buying coursework.

Something very weird would have to happen for someone who forged Masters coursework to get onto a PhD (due to the nature of the application process). But I just can't imagine how someone could feasibly forge a PhD...

In any case, if its the letters that're getting the respect rather than the way someone's acting / being / performing... Then something fundamentally fucked is happening anyhows.

Sadly, in my admittedly humble experience those that cheat effectively are those who come up smelling of roses in most situations.


Also, someone's CV does influence how others view them. We work with Cambridge on some research, bits are world class and bits are dreadful but all are favourably viewed because of the name. It's human nature, we defer to perceived authority in the absence of other metrics or means of judging someone's strength or depth of knowledge.

Ironically, if you're an engineer with a PhD you're actually looked down on in industry - arguably because there's little use for us in the UK's financial services driven economy. Ivory towers and all that.

 

[butterfly child]

Sorry if I've misunderstood, but are you saying that you do plagiarize but haven't been caught? Again, apologies if I've misunderstood.

Like I'd be stupid enough to admit on a public bulletin board that I plagiarise!

No, I was saying that my university have this piece of software.

It is meant to be very effective too.

I'd have thought it might be quite easy to plagiarise accidentally, if your referencing wasn't too hot? Obviously not entire essays, but the software they run our work through can pick up even the smallest bit.. I think it shows up in % form.

 

[phildwyer]

Like I'd be stupid enough to admit on a public bulletin board that I plagiarise!

No, I was saying that my university have this piece of software.

It is meant to be very effective too.

I'd have thought it might be quite easy to plagiarise accidentally, if your referencing wasn't too hot? Obviously not entire essays, but the software they run our work through can pick up even the smallest bit.. I think it shows up in % form.

Oh right, I didn't think you were daft, glad to have it confirmed.

You are also right about the ease with which accidental plagiarism can happen, especially these days when people take notes from the web by cutting and pasting. You have to be quite alert, and very aware of your own writing style, to avoid it. I don't know about the UK, but here in the US, being busted for plagiarism is a career-ending event.

 

[DotCommunist]

Like I'd be stupid enough to admit on a public bulletin board that I plagiarise!

No, I was saying that my university have this piece of software.

It is meant to be very effective too.

I'd have thought it might be quite easy to plagiarise accidentally, if your referencing wasn't too hot? Obviously not entire essays, but the software they run our work through can pick up even the smallest bit.. I think it shows up in % form.

yeah I heard of this software, apparently it's of aid to researches when tracing the origins of newspaper stories etc. Shocking how many news stories are near verbatim ripped from other sources and re-jigged in house style

 

[sojourner]

I'm surprised more courses don't switch to 100% exams tbh.

I'd have been fucked if they'd done that on my degree. I'm the same as NVP - completely fucking lose it in exam conditions. Brain just empties and I panic. Essays - loved writing them, loved thinking up independent titles etc.

 

[Fledgling]

I'm sure there's probably more unsavoury ways of making money as a struggling postgrad....

Dunno, at least telesales is bare faced unsavouriness, there's a certain honesty in its lowness. Writing other people's essays is exploiting a really awful loophople. It ain't too disimilar from professionals allowing hideously rich peeps to avoid more tax. Can be justified and seen as acceptable but actually is quite awful.

 

[El Jefe]

who was that twat who was announcing his intention to do exactly this a couple of years ago?

 

[Fledgling]

What? Did I say that? Hope I didn't.

 

[rioted]

I'm surprised more courses don't switch to 100% exams tbh.

Once upon a time most courses were 100% exams.

Then feminism arrived.

 

[subversplat]

Dunno, at least telesales is bare faced unsavouriness, there's a certain honesty in its lowness. Writing other people's essays is exploiting a really awful loophople. It ain't too disimilar from professionals allowing hideously rich peeps to avoid more tax. Can be justified and seen as acceptable but actually is quite awful.

Oh, I was talking about sucking cocks

 

[equationgirl]

But I just can't imagine how someone could feasibly forge a PhD...

Theoretically I guess you could get someone else to do all the work for you, but you'd have to be dead rich to do that.

I guess you could steal someone else's results and try and pass them off as your own but you'd be found out pretty quickly.

I reckon you'd just pay for a dodgy online PhD instead if you were that lazy.

 

[equationgirl]

Once upon a time most courses were 100% exams.

Then feminism arrived.

Yes, of course, it was feminism, not MODULARISATION that changed the university system.

I had exams three times a year when I did my first degree in engineering, and we had to pass the summer exams at the end else there was resits.

 

[mrs quoad]

who was that twat who was announcing his intention to do exactly this a couple of years ago?

Onslow

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=205560&highlight=onslow

 

[equationgirl]

that thread brings back such fond memories...

Urban showed him the error of his ways I do believe

 

[FiFi]

Once upon a time most courses were 100% exams.

Then feminism arrived.

Can you please tell me what feminism has to do with course work vs exams?

Not sarcasm by the way, I'm just interested in your reasoning.

 

[Sunray]

This is very easy to prevent if the institution wanted to, very simple indeed and no technology is needed.

Just have to schedule in a presentation as part of each essay where they discuss what they have written.

 

[scifisam]

Can you please tell me what feminism has to do with course work vs exams?

Not sarcasm by the way, I'm just interested in your reasoning.

There is a connection - girls (I say girls because I've only read about it for school pupils) tend, overall, to do far better at coursework than they do at exams. This is particularly the case for multiple choice exams. I'm too tired to remember why, but whatever the reasoning, the statistics (passing or failing exams vs. coursework) were hard to argue with.

Of course, some topics are dealt with much better by coursework than by exam, so there are good reasons for having at least some coursework in all subjects.

I wonder if plagiarism is the reason for the increased number of group projects in university courses? At least, they seem to be a lot more common now than they used to be. It would be harder to plagiarise group work than individual work - everyone would have to agree to it.

 

[scifisam]

This is very easy to prevent if the institution wanted to, very simple indeed and no technology is needed.

Just have to schedule in a presentation as part of each essay where they discuss what they have written.

That is a good way, but as mentioned by others above, it does have its disadvantages - some people really cannot handle such interviews, and it would require a lot of extra work for the lecturers.