Fucking AR loonies continue to try and blow people up

[sihhi]

I'd certainly have been dead before I was 16 if it wasn't for for essential medicines almost certainly developed by animal testing, and I continue to rely on such medicines now, 25 years later, to keep me alive. So to say the least I'm ambivalent about AR related issues, and I've never got involved with campaigns.

I've also been a vegetarian all my life, I shudder to think what some of the more indignant people on this thread think of that!.

Why do you shudder William?

Most speciesists (like me) I'd imagine don't care what diet you prefer as long as you don't try force it on anyone else.

 

[William of Walworth]

Factlet 1: Peaceful protest looks and feels nice, thats why is completely fucking useless.
Factlet 2: We only kill other creatures because we can. When sustainance is removed from the equation, we kill for very little. Definition of a bully?
Factlet 3: When did a 'movement' ever occur that didn't involve activism? I'll give you 5 where it did for every 1 that it didn't.

That leaves open the question of NVDA (worked -- at times anyway -- for the Road Protest Movement!) vs. violence-against-the-person actions.

Haven't got time to go in to that issue now, but it's surely one the AR movement needs to think about.

 

[kyser_soze]

Factlet 1: Peaceful protest looks and feels nice, thats why is completely fucking useless.
Factlet 2: We only kill other creatures because we can. When sustainance is removed from the equation, we kill for very little. Definition of a bully?
Factlet 3: When did a 'movement' ever occur that didn't involve activism? I'll give you 5 where it did for every 1 that it didn't.

So do you condone the threat of the use, and use of violence against civilians as a legitimate tactic of protest?

Do you consider the setting and detonation of explosive devices of any sort if a legitimate act of protest?

 

[ch750536]

That leaves open the question of NVDA (worked -- at times anyway -- for the Road Protest Movement!) vs. violence-against-the-person actions.

Haven't got time to go in to that issue now, but it's surely one the AR movement needs to think about.

Different terrain, pardon the pun. Hard to tie yourself to rabbits. Also, exclusion zones mean forced removal.

I think HLS would piss themselves at a few AR people up a tree.

 

[kyser_soze]

Hard to tie yourself to rabbits

And it would be cruel to them, obv...

 

[JHE]

Factlet 3: When did a 'movement' ever occur that didn't involve activism? I'll give you 5 where it did for every 1 that it didn't.

Is 'activism' the current euphemism for bombing people?

 

[ch750536]

So do you condone the threat of the use, and use of violence against civilians as a legitimate tactic of protest?

If you mean Iraq then no. Depends on the situation. Also depends on the use of the word 'civilian', a military term iirc.

Do you consider the setting and detonation of explosive devices of any sort if a legitimate act of protest?

Yes, you?

 

[tom k&e]

I'd certainly have been dead before I was 16 if it wasn't for for essential medicines almost certainly developed by animal testing, and I continue to rely on such medicines now, 25 years later, to keep me alive. So to say the least I'm ambivalent about AR related issues, and I've never got involved with campaigns.

I've also been a vegetarian all my life, I shudder to think what some of the more indignant people on this thread think of that!

<awaits tedious bout of hypocrisy hunting and consistency insisting ... YAWN!! >

There's nothing hypocritical bout that at all. You need the medicines to survive, you don't need meat, so your position is rational.

If you were a member of SHAC - then there would be a problem

 

[ch750536]

And it would be cruel to them, obv...

 

[William of Walworth]

Why do you shudder William?

Most speciesists (like me) I'd imagine don't care what diet you prefer as long as you don't try force it on anyone else.

If I had a pint (containing plenty of isinglass and I don't give a shit!! so fuck off hypocrisy hunters and consistency interrogators) for every tedious lecture I'd had containing words along the lines of 'don't try and force it on anyone else' from carniovores who assume, just from the fact that I'm a veggie alone, that I'm out to 'convert' them, then because of that assumption, try and force their hypocrisy-hunting on me, I'd be very pissed indeed for free...

Most sane/sensible/mainstream veggies don't give a shit about what anyone else does, they make their own choices and leave othes to make theirs, but far too many extreme-carnivores -- a minority I know, but there's plenty of them about, and in greater numbers because there's more meat eaters overall -- seem to want to interfere, force the superioirity of their way of life on me, and assume that 'we' [veggies] are 'all' 'sanctimonious' evangelists ...

But thats for general veggie thread no 637 ......

I don't even know what a speciesist is exactly, for fucks sake ... nor do I particularly care (perhaps I should )

 

[kropotkin]

Maybe I'm a bit hazy on my history but AFAIR the Women's Right's movement never attempted to blow anyone u and didn't threaten politicians families or friends.

Yep, your history is a little hazy.

 

[cemertyone]

I doubt that many people would veiw the scum of the AR 'movement' as heros.

Don't you dare compare th Pankhursts to the grubby little human haters in the AR world.

oh keyboard...chill.....the above reminds me of those " republic" based ira men who would tell you not to compare the men of 1916 with those killers in the north...its all relative my dear and in the history of time ( much to your annoyence i would imagine) they will ALL be looped together in the struggle for rights..be those animal or human..take a broader view our kid....oh and have a smile

 

[kyser_soze]

No I don't agree that using explosives is a legitimate form of protest, especially if civilians will be around.

And I like your sophistry on the use of the term 'civilian' - I take it from that you agree that targeting the families of HLS execs because they are 'combatants'?

Nice to see how you also support the tactics used by the BNP and other facist organisations to intimidate and cow people. Always nice to know where the real idiots are.

 

[ch750536]

Is 'activism' the current euphemism for bombing people?

True, was looking for a stronger word than activism. Couldn't find one though.

 

[William of Walworth]

There's nothing hypocritical bout that at all. You need the medicines to survive, you don't need meat, so your position is rational.

If you were a member of SHAC - then there would be a problem

but not everyone sees it that way ...

 

[cemertyone]

So something to put to military use hurt some people. Dog bites man story.

Could you like PLEASE explain what on earth you are talking about fella ///thanks

 

[William of Walworth]

I think it's also down to the tacit approval that some posters (not yourself I hasten to add) often appear to give to the extremist elements of the AR movement while cloaking themselves in 'I'm a moderate' cloth.

I'd agree that there does seem to be some dissembling of that kind that goes on from some AR people like that, yes.

 

[ch750536]

No I don't agree that using explosives is a legitimate form of protest, especially if civilians will be around.

And I like your sophistry on the use of the term 'civilian' - I take it from that you agree that targeting the families of HLS execs because they are 'combatants'?

Nice to see how you also support the tactics used by the BNP and other facist organisations to intimidate and cow people. Always nice to know where the real idiots are.

Political correctness gone mad!!!

Go on, call me a nazi, you know you want to.

 

[JHE]

True, was looking for a stronger word than activism. Couldn't find one though.

Terrorism?

 

[kyser_soze]

Political correctness gone mad!!!

Go on, call me a nazi, you know you want to.

Not at all - AFAIK you're way way off being a facist.

Just nice to know you condone the methods they use to achieve their aims. Condoning what someone does doesn't make you one of them..

 

[ch750536]

Terrorism?

Naa, not encapsulating enough.

Got any more?

 

[cemertyone]

I like your sophistry on the use of the term 'civilian' - I take it from that you agree that targeting the families of HLS execs because they are 'combatants'?
.

In a word yes..they profit from the death of other beings ( any different from the share holders of Lockhead Martin..answer no...
so they should be targetted with a ruthlessness that they have never encountered in their nice share dealing M/C lives......
So yeah the old petrol bomb doe the world of good in these instances....burn them out.....

 

[ch750536]

Not at all - AFAIK you're way way off being a facist.

Just nice to know you condone the methods they use to achieve their aims. Condoning what someone does doesn't make you one of them..

Cool. Its suprising what kind of results can be attained when you fight back.

 

[kropotkin]

No I don't agree that using explosives is a legitimate form of protest, especially if civilians will be around.

Now, you know I'm not an AR-type, but I thought I'd come back on tjhis.

'protest' is a term used for mediated political activity, where a group of people attempt to influence decision makers to change their policies through 'speaking truth to power' as Ghandi put it.

What these forms of activity are is not strictly protest: they represent a direct attempt to change policy through attacking those carrying it out- whether they be workers involved, management making the decsisons, or support companies providing a viable logistical context for the work to take place.

Note this post is not a defense of said activity [although I have nothing against bombings, assassinations and physical violence per se, they are just tactics to be used sometimes and not at others]

 

[ch750536]

And I like your sophistry on the use of the term 'civilian' - I take it from that you agree that targeting the families of HLS execs because they are 'combatants'?

An often misunderstood word. We are using a military term to describe one group of people so lets expand what you have started.

Civilians being people not linked to either warring side leads that the enemy are not civilians.

Therefore, HLS & Co are the aggressors who we will 'correct' through military means as political means have failed.

 

[Fruitloop]

And you will lose, badly. Jesus Christ, do you not know any history at all?

 

[october_lost]

Fucking AR loonies continue to try and blow people up

As far as I am aware no one as ever been killed by the ALF or any of the paramilitary wings of the AR movement, most AR activity, incuding that by the ALF is actually non-violent, so this is in fact yet another crass thread by the AR-hating fringe group on Urban75.

If you people want to discuss something, then Im all ears....but this thread isnt the obvious place....im just mythed why it is, that some quite seemingly radical people on here somehow always manage to come to the defense of multinationals just because we start talking about the status of animals.....nothing like consistency

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Civilians being people not linked to either warring side leads that the enemy are not civilians.

But civilians are 'linked' to warring sides (e.g. historically perhaps most often by nationality); civilians are non-combatants. I think you'll either need to try harder to include the kids of company executives as active participants or have the moral courage to face up to and defend your support for the threats against/attacks on family members. It can be done. Just have the honesty to do it rather than trying to hide behind some linguistic sleight of hand.

Louis Mac

 

[kyser_soze]

Well so far on this thread where we have discussed these issues we've found that at least 2 posters suport the use of violent DA as a means of achieving change, which is interesting given the general tone shown towards state or capital usign violence to achieve it's aims, not to mention showing an interesting dichotomy that they are prepared to injure or kill humans to show compassion towards animals.

 

[Fruitloop]

If you people want to discuss something, then Im all ears....but this thread isnt the obvious place....im just mythed why it is, that some quite seemingly radical people on here somehow always manage to come to the defense of multinationals just because we start talking about the status of animals.....nothing like consistency

Maybe it's because animal research isn't a left/right issue, and there are plenty of targets of animal rights DA that aren't multinationals. Nothing like prejudging the fucking issue.