From 2 million to 2 thousand

[untethered]

You think STWC should have upped the ante. How? What?

I think they needed to have a coherent plan for the post-invasion situation.

They bet the farm on opposing the invasion and had very little to say of substance afterwards other than that they opposed the whole thing from the start.

"I told you so" is rarely a good political platform, even if you're right.

 

[butchersapron]

Like what?

 

[untethered]

Like what?

Well that's the problem. The invasion really made STWC irrelevant overnight.

It was pretty clear that domestic opposition wasn't going to stop the war quickly while it was in progress. Taking the fully oppositional stance left no room for manouevre to criticise the way the occupation was being conducted.

That's probably why so many people parted company with STWC. They didn't like the war and occupation, but had very little to propose that was better.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm not on about plans for Iraq, i'm on about plans to stop the occupation.

 

[untethered]

I'm not on about plans for Iraq, i'm on about plans to stop the occupation.

The Iraqis and Iranians seem to have that one pretty much in hand.

 

[Prince Rhyus]

You think STWC should have upped the ante. How? What?

Isn't this something that everyone should be unpicking at the summer gatherings? i.e. how did the movement fall away and how can it be rebuilt?

There's got to be some honest soul-searching on this one. It was interesting that some of the MPs who voted against the war on both Tory and Labour benches were the ones who had strongest pressure from their constituencies. It didn't save Anne Campbell her seat in Cambridge but Tory stalwart Andrew Lansley voted against the war in part because of the feedback he was getting from his constituents, a large number of whom live in and around Cambridge (which had a thriving STWC movement.)

 

[lewislewis]

The anti-war movement was vital on pressurising Blair and I enjoyed particpating in it. However I think trying to sustain it into 2007 is a mistake by the far-left and is flogging a dead horse.

 

[Geoff kerr-morg]

Subject: Blair's last day: Protest in Downing Street


STOP THE WAR COALITION
NEWSLETTER No. 1011
Monday 25 June 2007
Email [email protected]
T: 020 7278 6694
Web: http://www.stopwar.org.uk

IN THIS NEWSLETTER:
1) BLAIR'S LAST DAY: PROTEST IN DOWNING STREET
2) OVER 5000 DEMONSTRATE IN MANCHESTER
3) WHERE CAN TONY BLAIR GO NOW?

**********************************

1) BLAIR'S LAST DAY:
JOIN MILITARY FAMILIES AGAINST THE WAR
PROTEST IN DOWNING STREET
WEDNESDAY 27 JUNE 10AM  12 NOON

Military Families Against the War, representing families who have lost relatives in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, will be in Downing Street on Tony Blair's last day in office, Wednesday 27 June. They will be holding pictures of their loved ones who have died as a result of Tony Blair's war crimes. The Military Families are inviting everyone who is able to join them to come to Downing Street between 10am and 12 noon, when Blair will leave for the last time. Stop the War Coalition will be supporting their protest, to help ensure that Blair's last day is marked by a protest against his war policies, which have lead to the deaths of up to one million Iraqis, countless Afghan civilians, 152 British soldiers in Iraq and 61 soldiers in Afghanistan.

Rose Gentle, whose son Gordon was killed in Iraq almost exactly two years ago, says, "Let our photos be the last thing Blair sees when he leaves number 10."

In the afternoon, the Military Families will hand a letter for Gordon Brown into Downing Street, asking him to meet the families of those soldiers who have died in Iraq, a request which Tony Blair has turned down repeatedly over the past three years.

******************************
2) OVER 5000 DEMONSTRATE IN MANCHESTER
5000 protestors marched up to the Labour Party special leadership conference on Sunday 24 June, to insist that the first thing Gordon Brown does when he takes office is to change government policy on Iraq and bring the troops home now.

Stop the War national Andrew Murray told the demonstration, "We are here to wave goodbye to the most dangerous and warmongering prime minister in modern British history and to demand that he takes his policies with him. The Pope may forgive Tony Blair but the British people will not. We are demanding that Gordon Brown gives us a fresh start by pulling troops out of Iraq and breaking with George Bush's foreign policy."

FOR A REPORT ON THE DEMONSTRATION, GO TO:
http://tinyurl.com/2tcbg4

FOR PICTURES AND VIDEO OF THE DEMONSTRATION, GO TO:
http://www.mancsagainsttanks.org/

******************************
3) WHERE CAN TONY BLAIR GO NOW?
Where Tony Blair should go, is straight to a war crimes tribunal. In the immediate future what beckons is speeches at a fee of #100,000 a time and a multi-million pound advance for his memoirs. Other options being suggested are discussed by Geoffrey Wheatcroft in this article:
http://tinyurl.com/37cxpr
--

 

[butchersapron]

Isn't this something that everyone should be unpicking at the summer gatherings? i.e. how did the movement fall away and how can it be rebuilt?

There's got to be some honest soul-searching on this one. It was interesting that some of the MPs who voted against the war on both Tory and Labour benches were the ones who had strongest pressure from their constituencies. It didn't save Anne Campbell her seat in Cambridge but Tory stalwart Andrew Lansley voted against the war in part because of the feedback he was getting from his constituents, a large number of whom live in and around Cambridge (which had a thriving STWC movement.)

What summer gatherings? People don't go to them. The super activists go to them. That is precisely one of the problems. Not that not enough people don't go to gatherings, but that they're exclusive insider dealings. Neighbourhood committees based around shared interests or needs is better than this. Politics isn't the way to change things. Activist politics or not.

 

[teuchter]

We are demanding that Gordon Brown gives us a fresh start by pulling troops out of Iraq

The STWC website is notably devoid of any statements or proposals, as far as I can see, relating to how this pullout should be achieved.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

As a member of Manchester STWC steering committee, I submit the following:

7. Lack of money and time for full publicity job, such as that for last September when there was a very healthy demo for the labourscum conference.

 

[yield]

Neighbourhood committees based around shared interests or needs is better than this. Politics isn't the way to change things. Activist politics or not.

That's just it though where are the neighbourhoods, the sense of community? Round here it's a mix of owner occupiers and buy to lets no-one acknowledges each other except with a nod and a quick word if you pass accidentally in the street. My neighbours may get up-in-arms about new park regulations and start up petitions an such but that's it. All those depressing stories about the elderly dying in the flats unnoticed for weeks, happens too damn often around here. The vast majority of people I meet and talk to are not interesting in Politics, society, how we're governed and our common interests.

I got dozens of people I know on to the big anti-war demonstration, they all said they had a great day, but when the invasion still went ahead and the killing started everyone was deflated and went onto other things. It's like there was this amazing moment and then.. ohh look shiney.

 

[butchersapron]

They need to be made or they always exist but aren't seen through political lenses. Every community is built around co-operation, around shared tasks and shared norms and a way to reach those shared norms - and the door is open to that process, but you have to be in there doing the shit work to be taken seriously, to be part of that community.

 

[yield]

My job is self-congratulatory shit work looking after the vulnerable, sick, elderly and dying for an ALMO. Should really be doing a whole lot more though.[/derail]

 

[Andy the Don]

From 2 million to 2 thousand.. why..

Because many people find it extremely distasteful to march under banner proclaiming "We are all Hizbullah" & "Globalise the Infatada" glorifying terrorism & wishing death on the Jews.

 

[likesfish]

I think they needed to have a coherent plan for the post-invasion situation.
I think somebody in power could have done with one of those as well

 

[KeyboardJockey]

From 2 million to 2 thousand.. why..

Because many people find it extremely distasteful to march under banner proclaiming "We are all Hizbullah" & "Globalise the Infatada" glorifying terrorism & wishing death on the Jews.

Spot on. The swappies didn't have a post invasion plan of attack other than marching from a to b, there was no attempt to build a community of resistance or at least not one that wouldn't alienate thier Islamist allies.

I can't bring myself to march with wankers who say 'we are all Hizbollah' etc. Why should I march under banners of organisations that want to kill socialists, jews or anyone else who disagrees with them. Turkeys voting for christmas.

 

[Crispy]

They need to be made or they always exist but aren't seen through political lenses. Every community is built around co-operation, around shared tasks and shared norms and a way to reach those shared norms - and the door is open to that process, but you have to be in there doing the shit work to be taken seriously, to be part of that community.

"Sounds like hard work. I'd rather sit in and watch big brother thanks"

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And while it was easy at the time to built a campaign against starting that war, the issues are much more complex now.

Iraq cannot begin on the painful and probably bloody road to recovery until the occupying powers leave. British troops need to withdraw immediately BECAUSE THEIR PRESENCE IS MAKING THINGS WORSE. The US and UK, because of their past actions, are the last countries in the whole world that should be trying to 'sort out' the Middle East. This is a very simple issue.

 

[treelover]

Mmm, new one on me that, a Jihadi version of the dreadful SWP slogan/grouping; Globalise Resistance, eh.

Cross fertilisation between the fundamentalists and the fundamentalists?

Because many people find it extremely distasteful to march under banner proclaiming "We are all Hizbullah" & "Globalise the Infatada" glorifying terrorism & wishing death on the Jews.
Reply With Quote

 

[teuchter]

Iraq cannot begin on the painful and probably bloody road to recovery until the occupying powers leave. British troops need to withdraw immediately BECAUSE THEIR PRESENCE IS MAKING THINGS WORSE. The US and UK, because of their past actions, are the last countries in the whole world that should be trying to 'sort out' the Middle East. This is a very simple issue.

So if they were to simply withdraw today, what is your prediction as to what would happen next?