French Students murdered in New Cross
- Thread starter Melinda
- Start date
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
You are joking, right?
If somehow in the course of your career you haven't noticed the link between crack use and casual violence, ranging from wifebeating to full on torture to reveal PIN numbers (as a former Urban75 poster experienced whilst trying to buy drugs on Coldharbour Lane) then I don't think you were in the right job.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/dec/23/ukcrime.topstories3
http://www.independent.ie/national-...s-nine-years-for-night-of-torture-225700.html
http://www.thecnj.co.uk/camden/091307/news091307_08.html
No. Thank you for your examples of violence by crackheads. I am well aware of lots of such examples. What I am NOT aware of, is any significant trend of the use of the extreme violence (tying up; almost 200 stab wounds, some post death; arson) seen in this case by simple "crackheads".
Are you?
lostexpectation
New Member
we'll see he recently been let out of some mental hospital
* Waits for fuckwits to turn up and post "Oh, I've got a burn. Does that make me a multiple murderer" style posts ... *
Riklet
procrastinación
The fact he turned himself in makes me suspect the guy's a nutter, or else he was caught up in it with someone else, or sobered up and realised what had happened...... either way, fucking BRUTAL and tragic crime, and it really seems like there's very little motive. They were tortured and then mutilated after they died, most likely, so someone was either really trying to make a point, or is so out of it the idea of "point" had little bearing... I mean come on, it can't have been to get the PIN codes, anyone would have coughed up their codes as soon as they realised they were dealing with a seriously fucked psychopath.
Mmmm, very unsettling if the guy who handed himself in has just got out of a mental hospital, and tbh... the fact he did hand himself in could well mean he was; few days wandering around, and then no idea how to look after himself or get himself treated... then straight to the cop shop. If that turns out to be the case there'll certainly be a fair bit of fuss over the government's handling of people with mental illnesses.... perhaps with good reason.
RIP poor buggers anyway.
Mmmm, very unsettling if the guy who handed himself in has just got out of a mental hospital, and tbh... the fact he did hand himself in could well mean he was; few days wandering around, and then no idea how to look after himself or get himself treated... then straight to the cop shop. If that turns out to be the case there'll certainly be a fair bit of fuss over the government's handling of people with mental illnesses.... perhaps with good reason.
RIP poor buggers anyway.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
I used to live in Sterling Gardens so reading about this felt weird.
My first response was 'WTF!?' then 'Was there anything dodgy going on we don't know about?'
Whatever, this is hugely fucked up.
My first response was 'WTF!?' then 'Was there anything dodgy going on we don't know about?'
Whatever, this is hugely fucked up.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
from the last example from PK's link
"Mrs Wright, who has two daughters and worked in the ladies’ wear department of the John Lewis store in Oxford Street before her retirement, was repeatedly ‘pricked’ with a knife.
Her skull was fractured and she suffered 40 hammer blows. Two of Mrs Wright’s teeth had been knocked out and she had a fracture to one hand.
She was bludgeoned with the hammer and stabbed. She suffered 14 broken ribs and 15 head injuries in addition to knife wounds."
OK she wasn't tied up, but she was a frail 71 year old lady attacked by her much bigger and stronger crack addict son, so he probably didn't need to tie her up.
I think that the repeatedly ‘pricked’ with a knife is another way of saying she had been stabbed, but to hurt her, not to kill her, as someone might do if attempting to torture someone to get their pin number.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
With rented accomodation the locks are seldom changed when one tenant moves out and another moves in. You often have no idea just how many people could have the keys to your flat or have made copies and passed them on - especially in places with a very high turnover of residents.
Yes, a couple fo years back I threw out a huge collection of keys I'd picked up over ten years of living in shared houses.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
Round here you'd be in a queue for 2 - 5 hours before you even got to speak to the receptionist
JHE
.
Five minutes spent trying to find a volunteer?
- OK, everyone, listen up. Out in the reception area is a suspected homicidal maniac. He says he stabbed those two French students hundreds of times. Who would like to go out there and deal with him? Don't forget to search him properly, mind.
- Sorry, Sarge, I'd love to help, but I'm, er, really busy right now.
>But that isn't the same thing, is it?
You were claiming that it was motivated entirely by the fact that the suspect was a crackhead, as opposed to the suspect happening to have a crack habit and it being due to mental illness / robbery / some other motivation. The offender may well have a crack habit. But I would take your tenner that it's not been committed simply because of that fact.
The context / motivation is domestic (mother / son) not simply because he was a crack addict.
This is not unusual - I had that with one of mine. The standards today ...
(who, incidentally, had legged it to Devon or somewhere and then, on seeing the media coverage, had decided to travel back to Sutton and give himself up. Having done so, he promptly (on the advice of a muppet brief) gave a "no comment" interview which included the priceless exchange:
Interviewer (somewhat non-plussed on the lack of cooperation): Er, you travelled all the way from Devon and gave yourself up at the front counter as being wanted. What do you believe you are wanted for?
Suspect: No comment.
(He was charged with murder and kept in custody - if he'd talked he would have been bailed pending further enquiries (it was a one punch, cracked skull type incident) and probably would have been charged with manslaughter and stayed on bail pending trial).)
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
TBF I don't think that anyone commits a hideously violent crime just because they are a crack addict, however crack addiction does seem to make some people more likely to commit hideously violent crimes, torturing people for information for either pin number or safe combinations or "where's the money hidden then?" type crimes.
I was robbed by a crack addict. he was clearly pathetic and desperate, however he apologised to me as he was attacking me and told me "don't be silly now" as I tried to fight with him. We were both rubbish fighters and we ended up with him in a get away car holding my bag and me still holding onto my bag strap, a potentially lethal situation which thankfully ended up with me suffering no more than a few bruises and a ripped coat.
I suppose I'm saying that I appreciate that crack doesn't turn all addicts into monstrous torturers and murderers, but if someone is inclined towards violence, the addition of crack into the mix makes the outcome potentially much more dangerous.
As for the fire, well that could just be the CSI effect, as could the stabbing injuries sustained after death.
That's not my experience - at least where the sort of really excessive violence of this case is concerned (I agree that they do tend to resort to some violence pretty quickly during robberies, etc. but not, in my experience to this sort of thing)
As I said from the start, I have only experienced this as a matter of identifiable trend in relation to sexual motivation (often linked with an aspect of hate crime, now I think of it) and mental illness.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
I don't know all the details of exactly how they were mutilated so you could be right
There are some kinds of injuries that obviously suggest a sexual motivation and some that indicate mental illness. The postmortems stabbings would suggest either possibility as they serve no function in terms of torturing someone to obtain information and there is substantial literature recording such murders as being motivated by sexual sadism and/ or hate crime.
However the fact that the murderer/s set fire to the crime scene suggests that he/they had attempted to destroy evidence yes? It is possible that the postmortem stabbings were an attempt to throw investigators off the case, yes? Especially given that, with the CSI effect, an ordinary member of the public can learn about how to disguise an acquisitive crime as a crime committed by a sexual psychopath.
The fact that a laptop had been stolen at an earlier burglary suggests that, if the murders were linked to the earlier burglary, the perpetrator/s had some time to think about what they were going to do and how to cover their tracks, so there is a possibility that he/they planned to make an acquisitive crime appear to be a sex crime or some other kind of crime.
Another possibility is that more than one perpetrator was involved as there is a history of horrific murders, involving kidnap and torture where the relevant factors were a) a group who decided, for whatever reason, that they were justified in torturing people to death (or at least in torturing them, got carried away and then realised they had gone too far and went on to murder) and b) the consumption of certain drugs by the perpetrators
The cases that come to my mind to me are the murders of Mary-Ann Leneghan and, years earlier, the murder of Suzanne Capper. Both murders involved horrific torture and sexual degradation of the victims while the perpetrators were under the influence of drugs (crack cocaine and amphetamines respectively). In both cases the perpetrators were fired up by a sense of righteous indignation in relation to real or imaginary crimes that they imagined the victims had committed. In both cases the members of the group egged each other on to commit even more horrific acts of violence that, as individuals, they probably wouldn't have committed.
Just thinking aloud really. I really hope that the man who gave himself up is the perpetrator.
Oh well. Might as well quote it, so that all the people still yawning awake don't feel like they've missed anything. 'snot like there's much else to be doing at this stupid, unearthly hour of the morning. Who knows, maybe someone will actually want an Age of Conan levelling - whatever one of them is.
And now we return you to: deranged multiple stabbings and the world going to Hell in a handbasket. Please do not adjust your sets..
Anything is possible ... but ...
Fire has a variety of uses - I have encountered it being used deliberately, and primarily, to obscure evidence quite rarely (at least when it comes to murders - torching the getaway car is de rigeur for robbers!). Likewise I have rarely heard of additional injuries being used to disguise a basic crime (unless being used to make murder look like suicide).
If it is either of these motivations (and neither can be ruled out on the basis of what we know) then it will be an unusual crime.
The other cases you mention with massive amounts of torture / sadism involved, as you point out, victims known to the suspects and a motivation borne of that. It seems unlikely from what we know of the background of the two victims that that is the case here (although again it cannot be ruled out - lots of people have totally hidden second lives).
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
Nigel Edward Farmer 33 years old of NFA, the man who handed himself in, has been charged with 2 counts of murder, one of arson and one of perverting the course of justice
just heard it on BBC news
just heard it on BBC news
Perverting the course of justice???
Anyway, that's the last we'll hear of the background until the trial.
Similar threads
