Four British G8 protesters held
- Thread starter lizzieloo
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Blagsta said:
Attica said:
That's just a remark mentioning the Stalinist idea of not allowing free thought if a given group win the revolution.
Human nature is there to see.
The capitalists are all around making money from their efforts.
Others are trying to be the best in their field. The best sportsman, chess player or the best at whatever they do.
Those who fail still try and end up as union shop stewards or security guards trying to impose their will on others that way. (better add smile here but it's not that far from true
)Capitalism has been around for the whole of human history. If one man has a skill or commodity of value to others he sells it for the best price he can get.
We all do it in one way or another. Take any walk of life you care to consider and you will find someone trying to be top dog.
All over the world it's the exchange of goods and services and the chance of a better life that drives us.
It is true that those unable to do well moan and want an equal distribution of wealth but it is also true that if you do it you soon see a new upper class appear from the rubble left over by such a foolish revolution.
See how the french killing all their upper class failed to stop the rise of a new capitalist upper class within such a short time.
That fails to excude the possibility that you can be nice to others or even directly help those less able for any reason but most of us want more than we have.
And that boys and girls is greed.
No, it hasn't.big footed fred said:
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_capitalism (or for that matter any worthwhile history book) and come back.
Or on the other hand...don't.
I could "do well" in the sense of getting a bit nicer a reward for making my bosses rich. In the meantime, people around me are getting fucked - and those who "did well" are making decisions which may ultimately see me dead (air pollution, climate change, etc.). I kinda take exception to that.
as far as summit protests...I do see them having a limited value in their ability to make the movements more visible and bring things together in a way which is able to, in turn, facilitate other action. With a demo against war, for example, I see it as a chance for anti-war campaigners to come together and get an idea of the size of the movement, communicate with others, and create a visible presence which may then attract others to the campaign. Summit protests are to me the same logic, but on a larger and more general scale.
The problem is that where they SHOULD come from that perspective - we have a movement [of movements
] which comes together periodically to create larger, symbolic, visible manifestations - it seems that many take it the other way round, in that the spectacle is the aim and the movement exists to create them.I didn't go to Russia and may not go to Germany largely because I've yet to be convinced the positive outcomes of the above outweigh the costs, risks, time, energy and resources required for them.
- Jonathan
JonnyT said:
I did but I only covers 2000 years or so. Still I see around be a world built on the results of people's stuggles to be the best.
The whole of history is full of people who have left their mark on this world as a result of their desire to be the top of what they do.
This desire is inbuilt into all animals including humans as an aid to the survival of the species. An animal tries to increase it's domain and attract more females. It defends it's territory against others and protects it's females against other males.
Without this we would not have the drive to reproduce and the drive to protect ourselves and our offspring.
As the human brain has developed and it's abilities increased we have translated this into capitalism or a appetite to be the best at what we do.
Some aspire to be a great sports hero, others need to have power over others and some a need to make money but all show a wish to dominate in a given form
Only those that are second best or totally fail are against this truth and even they still try in their own way to work to the top.
JonnyT said:
In Bloom said:
Two quotes showing that you want more than you have at the moment.
Try going with your natural inclinations to better yourselves and start a business.
Can anyone deny what is around us to see ?
In Bloom said:
But do you have the urge to make more money or in some way gat more than you have now ?
I know no one that can answer "no"
Even the all powerful 1970s unions were after more money for the workers.
Same thing expressed in another way.
fishfingerer
sultan of cringe
I don't want to patronise you but that reads like a 9 year old's first ever essay. (Apologies to any 9 year old posters)big footed fred said:That's just a remark mentioning the Stalinist idea of not allowing free thought if a given group win the revolution.
Human nature is there to see.
The capitalists are all around making money from their efforts.
Others are trying to be the best in their field. The best sportsman, chess player or the best at whatever they do.
Those who fail still try and end up as union shop stewards or security guards trying to impose their will on others that way. (better add smile here but it's not that far from true
Capitalism has been around for the whole of human history. If one man has a skill or commodity of value to others he sells it for the best price he can get.
We all do it in one way or another. Take any walk of life you care to consider and you will find someone trying to be top dog.
All over the world it's the exchange of goods and services and the chance of a better life that drives us.
It is true that those unable to do well moan and want an equal distribution of wealth but it is also true that if you do it you soon see a new upper class appear from the rubble left over by such a foolish revolution.
See how the french killing all their upper class failed to stop the rise of a new capitalist upper class within such a short time.
That fails to excude the possibility that you can be nice to others or even directly help those less able for any reason but most of us want more than we have.
And that boys and girls is greed.
did you not read what Blagsta wrote?
"The experience of being on a demo with other like minded people, realising that there are many others like oneself who believe in similar things, can be an empowering experience in itself, and can "increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses".
That doesn't sound like nothing to me.
"The experience of being on a demo with other like minded people, realising that there are many others like oneself who believe in similar things, can be an empowering experience in itself, and can "increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses".
That doesn't sound like nothing to me.
fishfingerer said:
He probably picked up his advanced style at all those BNP meetings he confesses to having attended 'sceptically'.
Still, blind belief in the status quo is doubtless an emotional prop for the poor dear, no doubt. Like religion or beer or trainspotting.
Dic Penderyn
Newport Civic Pride!
In Bloom said:
11,449 posts and you lecture on time wasting......
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
In Bloom said:
Can you not get your head out of your own particular activist ghetto for a moment? Where did I mention anything about sucking anyone into a particular political scene? What I did say was that going on a demo can be personally empowering for people who've never before had any contact with anyone else who has similar opinions.
This is what I can't get my head around about you - you slag off anything that isn't what you consider to be the correct way of doing things - a brilliant way to alienate people from political activity. Well done for shooting yourself in the foot.
But why, exactly, would we want to attract people to demos and actions which are going to be, well, useless?
Large demos are inspiring and exciting, yes - and they're what gets a lot of people involved. However, the politics behind them often lends itself to simply attracting people to and keeping them in a scene with little or no hope of accomplishing change - and why build a movement if that movement is liable to be absolute shite?
I'm sure that many of the people who went to the make poverty history demo last year in Edinburgh came away feeling inspired, motivated and encouraged - to take action and be part of campaigns that I feel are limited and ultimately of little use. Which is why I was not involved in mobilising for MPH. Surely, then, the same goes?
Large demos are inspiring and exciting, yes - and they're what gets a lot of people involved. However, the politics behind them often lends itself to simply attracting people to and keeping them in a scene with little or no hope of accomplishing change - and why build a movement if that movement is liable to be absolute shite?
I'm sure that many of the people who went to the make poverty history demo last year in Edinburgh came away feeling inspired, motivated and encouraged - to take action and be part of campaigns that I feel are limited and ultimately of little use. Which is why I was not involved in mobilising for MPH. Surely, then, the same goes?
Dic Penderyn
Newport Civic Pride!
In Bloom said:Oh aye, because I consider urban75 a veritable recruiting ground
I come on here to entertain myself when I've nothing better to do, nothing more, nothing less.
& with 11,453 post you clearly haven't got alot to do really have you...
do you actually DO any politcal activity???
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