Four British G8 protesters held

[DrRingDing]

Meh. Might as well.

"Meaningful action, for revolutionaries, is whatever increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification. Sterile and harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of the masses, their apathy, their cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them and the degree to which they can therefore be manipulated by others - even by those allegedly acting on their behalf."

http://libcom.org/library/as-we-see-it-solidarity-group

Why do so many anarchists beleive they should stay as local as possible?

Have you ever been on a large confrontational protest abroad?

 

[big footed fred]

Aah that old chestnut.

Condemn activists as work shy layabouts if they don't have jobs, then condemn them as hypocrites if they do work.

Can't win with you Fred can we?

Nope.

Not for any other reason than the left wing ideas fail to grasp that that it is in the nature of people to win.
I say again that if you take all the cash and share it out one guy will buy the stuff he needs to make beer and the rest will buy his beer and piss their cash up the wall. Result - a rich man who can afford to drink and a load of lefties going on about redistribution of wealth.
People are NOT equal and NEVER will be.
So. no, you can't win.

 

[Blagsta]

Summit protesting was a dead end when it started and it's a completely tapped out dead end now. It doesn't "raise awareness" of anything, it achieves nothing. Even if you shut down the summit, what would you have achieved? What possible good would that do?

The experience of being on a demo with other like minded people, realising that there are many others like oneself who believe in similar things, can be an empowering experience in itself, and can "increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses".

 

[Blagsta]

Nope.

Not for any other reason than the left wing ideas fail to grasp that that it is in the nature of people to win.

To win what? What prize? Under what rules? Why does the prize and the rules have to be capitalist prizes and rules?

 

[nopassaran]

It actually, physically hurts me to see somebody saying anything this incredibly fuckwitted.

Feel free to wibble on about "consumerism" all you want......

So I'm sorry who's the 'fuckwit here'????

But hey if a fuckwit is someone who is guilty of being outraged by the destructiveness of consumerism - then glory be I AM A FUCKWIT - PRAISE THE LORD

 

[tw1ggy5]

The experience of being on a demo with other like minded people, realising that there are many others like oneself who believe in similar things, can be an empowering experience in itself, and can "increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses".

lol so good vibes is about it then.

 

[big footed fred]

To win what? What prize? Under what rules? Why does the prize and the rules have to be capitalist prizes and rules?

Another meaning of win is to succeed in or gain (something) with an effort.
In this case it's to win the cash from the others in your little social experiment.
The way of things will always fails as it presupposes that people are equal and they are not and never will be.

That about finishes off the left so I'll clobber the far right next. - just for an encore.

Most demos are a waste of time as well given that without popular support the governments just dismiss them as political way out loonies and when they wreck a town in doing so that's public support out of the window as well.
No better bit of news than a bunch of long haired lefties getting a beating from riot police after smashing up a town.
great pics for the beeb.

 

[Blagsta]

lol so good vibes is about it then.

Eh?

 

[Blagsta]

Another meaning of win is to succeed in or gain (something) with an effort.

Yes, I know what "win" means thanks.

In this case it's to win the cash from the others in your little social experiment.

My social experiment? Eh? What are you on about?

The way of things will always fails as it presupposes that people are equal and they are not and never will be.

What always fails? Why are you writing in riddles? What do you mean by "equal"?

That about finishes off the left so I'll clobber the far right next. - just for an encore.

You're an odd one, that's for sure.

Most demos are a waste of time as well given that without popular support the governments just dismiss them as political way out loonies and when they wreck a town in doing so that's public support out of the window as well.
No better bit of news than a bunch of long haired lefties getting a beating from riot police after smashing up a town.
great pics for the beeb.

I'm baffled.

 

[big footed fred]

You're an odd one, that's for sure.

:

I know and I'm cute as well.

 

[Blagsta]

I still haven't a clue what you're on about.

 

[big footed fred]

I still haven't a clue what you're on about.

OK but I'm watching a film so I'll use one silly bull words later.

 

[Blagsta]

As far as I can tell, you're claiming that left wing ideas won't work because people aren't equal and are inherently selfish. All that tells me is that you're not very familiar with left wing ideas.

 

[big footed fred]

As far as I can tell, you're claiming that left wing ideas won't work because people aren't equal and are inherently selfish. All that tells me is that you're not very familiar with left wing ideas.

That's about right. I was a member of the young sociallists and get pissed off with the lefty ranting about equal this and redistribution of that.
A load of old crap spouted by loosers with sod all chance of getting anywhere in life.
They can't do it so they wanted to stop the rest of us.

 

[Blagsta]

Why did you join in the first place then if you disagree so vehemently?

 

[big footed fred]

Why did you join in the first place then if you disagree so vehemently?

The first people I met seemed ok but the place was riddled with commies.
They put me off left wing politics for life.
The right wing always require someone to hate and their dogma is lost as soon as you meet a non white that is OK. As I know plenty of them that's the right well out of the window.
I have a nature that wants fairness in life but that is in conflict with my firm belief developed over time that capitalism will always win over ideology of any nature.
Ideology always requires an ideal that is unavailable but capitalism works with human greed and so works.

Cynical it may be but that's human nature for you.

 

[Blagsta]

The first people I met seemed ok but the place was riddled with commies.

Well what did you expect? You joined a socialist group ffs!

They put me off left wing politics for life.


The right wing always require someone to hate and their dogma is lost as soon as you meet a non white that is OK. As I know plenty of them that's the right well out of the window.
I have a nature that wants fairness in life but that is in conflict with my firm belief developed over time that capitalism will always win over ideology of any nature.
Ideology always requires an ideal that is unavailable but capitalism works with human greed and so works.

Capitalism is an ideology.

Cynical it may be but that's human nature for you.

What is human nature?

 

[big footed fred]

Well what did you expect? You joined a socialist group ffs!

Capitalism is an ideology.

What is human nature?

The first people and the reason I went were ok. Moderate left and has reasonable arguments, the rest were out and out commies far to the left of the labour party.

Capitalism is a reality not an ideology. It requires no ideals to work just that people will do as they do. Can't beat human nature.

Human nature is to be top. No matter how much we try to be equal and fair someone is always best. That's why we had/have royal families and an upper class. If you make all people equal a group will work their way to the top and it will start again. Left wing ideals ignore that people will do this and so fail.

 

[Blagsta]

Errrmmm...capitalism is an ideology. How is it not? It has certain assumptions (like your one about human nature and that "it requires no ideals to work just that people will do as they do" - I suggest you read up on a bit of history tbh).

Human nature is as much about co-operation as it is about competition. Again, read some history. However, I do grant you that competition is a part of human nature - however why does that competition have to be based on a capitalist ideology? It also manifests in someone wanting to be a great artist or musician or poet or scientist - things that don't require a capitalist mode of production that encourages people to value commodities over everything else.

 

[The Black Hand]

Hunt sabbing across the universe...

Capitalism is a reality not an ideology. It requires no ideals to work just that people will do as they do. Can't beat human nature.

Human nature is to be top. No matter how much we try to be equal and fair someone is always best. That's why we had/have royal families and an upper class. If you make all people equal a group will work their way to the top and it will start again. Left wing ideals ignore that people will do this and so fail.

Paragraph one is just wierd, capitalist exchange happens in most areas of the world but it doesn't rule ALL exchange (think of 'the gift', or the giving of money/goods) Your second sentance just doesn't make any sense, and neither does your third.

Paragraph 2 - human nature? To be 'top', what is 'top', is it the egalitarian values that encourage people to think they have as much right to be heard and to be here as anybody else? Somebody is always 'best'? This is simply not true, who is the best coal miner? The best road digger? The best sewage worker? The best teacher? The best nurse? All of this work is necessary... As for 'Royalty', they played political power games, they certainly weren't the 'best' swordsman... I went on a farmers land a while ago, he told me to fuck off, I told him that I had as much right to be here as him. I asked him where he got the land from, and he said it was left him, and I said where did his dad get it from? [Cutting a bit out here we get to the good bit

He said his family fought for the land orginally, and I said 'Ok, I'll fight you for it now then Then he called the police (his retainers) to get me kicked off 'his land'.

If we 'win' the revolution, we'll never let any fucker have the opportunity to be capitalist and/or accumulate power...

 

[big footed fred]

If we 'win' the revolution, we'll never let any fucker have the opportunity to be capitalist and/or accumulate power...

Just like in communist Russia ?

 

[big footed fred]

Errrmmm...capitalism is an ideology. How is it not? It has certain assumptions (like your one about human nature and that "it requires no ideals to work just that people will do as they do" - I suggest you read up on a bit of history tbh).

Human nature is as much about co-operation as it is about competition. Again, read some history. However, I do grant you that competition is a part of human nature - however why does that competition have to be based on a capitalist ideology? It also manifests in someone wanting to be a great artist or musician or poet or scientist - things that don't require a capitalist mode of production that encourages people to value commodities over everything else.

I can't agree. Capitalism works on the nature of animals including humans to get to the top.
It's a reality as you can see all around you.
Capitalism has worked in all countries if sometimes going a little far.
Someone wanting to be a great artist, musician, poet or scientist often want to be the best in the field. Same desire but with a different goal.

It will always be Man's nature to be the alpha male. It's just the path that is taken that may change.

 

[Col_Buendia]

The first people I met seemed ok but the place was riddled with commies.
They put me off left wing politics for life.
The right wing always require someone to hate and their dogma is lost as soon as you meet a non white that is OK. As I know plenty of them that's the right well out of the window.
I have a nature that wants fairness in life but that is in conflict with my firm belief developed over time that capitalism will always win over ideology of any nature.
Ideology always requires an ideal that is unavailable but capitalism works with human greed and so works.

Cynical it may be but that's human nature for you.

Pure comedy genius fred. There used to be another Fred round here, a Cautious Fred, Fred, you wouldn't be any relation now would you?

I love the way the reluctant cheerleaders for capitalism pass off their abashment with huzzahs of "it's just human nature"... Oh really?

 

[Col_Buendia]

It will always be Man's nature to be the alpha male. It's just the path that is taken that may change.

How the fuck would you (or anyone else) ever know?

What test have you devised to identify this thing you call eternal "human nature"?

Why haven't you patented it yet and made yourself a million (if it is your capitalist human instinct to want to rise to the top of the moneyed pile??) instead of wasting your time round here arguing with capitalism's rejects?

Why don't the highly visible section of us who clearly don't want to be "alpha males" feature in your 25 syllable precis of the entirety of human history?

Just curious, like

 

[Dan U]

anyone know if they got out? or are you all to busy arguing?

i know a guy who went out there with them and i've only heard via a convulted route that he didnt get nicked.

 

[Col_Buendia]

The four people that this thread is about are all back in South Wales.

 

[Blagsta]

Just like in communist Russia ?

What's Russia got to do with it?

 

[Blagsta]

I can't agree. Capitalism works on the nature of animals including humans to get to the top.
It's a reality as you can see all around you.
Capitalism has worked in all countries if sometimes going a little far.
Someone wanting to be a great artist, musician, poet or scientist often want to be the best in the field. Same desire but with a different goal.

It will always be Man's nature to be the alpha male. It's just the path that is taken that may change.

You're wrong. Simple as that. Capitalism as the dominant mode of production is a fairly recent thing. Read some history, educate yourself. As to human nature and the desire to be good at things - well, you ignored all my points so I'm not going to bother debating with you either.

 

[kyser_soze]

I love the way the reluctant cheerleaders for capitalism pass off their abashment with huzzahs of "it's just human nature"... Oh really?

Heh. I always try and turn it around - capitalism as a system is 'natural' - it's highly adaptive, blindly competitive and has no 'purpose', and as such is a social product of evolution (bear with me here) and our baser, animal natures.

If we, as human, are ever to really justify our own hype of being 'above' other animals, than some form of reasoned, rational but still emotionally satisfying society has to be our ultimate goal - to step off the hierachy treadmill which as a species we've been stuck in for millenia (I'd usually chuck in references to industrial feudalism being a more accurate way of describing our current situation but that tends to muddy the waters a bit)

So I agree that capitalism is a type of human nature - the animal nature that accepts hierarchy, violence and exploitation of the weak as a fact of life. A society based on human nature would be one based on reason, fairness and rationality.

 

[Dic Penderyn]

The four people that this thread is about are all back in South Wales.

yeah and we're all fine an' all.

thanks to everyone who supported.

To the people who do nothing by critize the actions of others because they don't feel in fits into their 100% perfect revoultionary vision. FUCK YOU.
Never ceases to amaze me that the people who harp on about 'we need to do local things not travel to big protests" usually do neither.

of the five activists from south wales, four are regularlly heavily involved in what could be termed 'local' activism (the other is realtivly new to activism & I'm sure will be more acive in the future). Unlike the vast majority of people who critised us for organising the trip in the months before the summit. in the end when challenged on this fact peole's response was along the lines of "...you should spend more time doing what I think i should be doing, even though you do it and i don't because i can't be bothered to do anything but talk shit..."