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Forward Wales in crisis

Oh dear.

If you don´t like what is said call it lies.

..and you wonder why so many people hate the SWP. :rolleyes:

FYI, I was a student organiser in a college of the UofW (not paid obviously) in the early 90s. If the SWP have any members left from back then (admittedly a tall order given its turnover) they´ll remember me (albeit not too fondly! as I was witness to some disgraceful behaviour...I´ll reminicse if you like ;) ) The SWSS branch was about 20 strong (active rather than paper), Glamorgan had an active (though smaller) SWSS group too, but then this was back during a period of rapid growth for the SWP (the "upturn").

Do the SWP not centrally produce posters for London demos, campaigns, Marxism etc. anymore? you must be in a bad way if organisers are expected to produce these themselves these days, but then I did hear a rumour that the printshop (owned, staffed and run by the SWP so presumably preferable to use than local comercial printers?) was closing...
 
chilango said:
Oh dear.

If you don´t like what is said call it lies.

..and you wonder why so many people hate the SWP. :rolleyes:

FYI, I was a student organiser in a college of the UofW (not paid obviously) in the early 90s. .
Click to expand...
I don't remember you being in the SWP in the early 90's.And I'm not an SWP member anymore.
 
osterberg said:
I don't remember you being in the SWP in the early 90's.And I'm not an SWP member.
Click to expand...

So how would you remember me then?

Ask me a question for verification if you like.
 
Damn!Didn't edit fast enough.
Your writing style and views are very like this idiot I know and I thought you might be him.And I can't stand him.
My humblest apologies. :( :(
 
chilango -

"If you don´t like what is said call it lies." More like, if you don't like bullshit complain about the smell :D


sorry mate - I was around at the time and haven't got a clue who you are or what you are talking about!

"I was a student organiser in a college of the UofW (not paid obviously) in the early 90s." In other words you were a student who drifted in and out of SWSS briefly. We would never be pompous enough to bestow the title organiser on any one member who happened to be at college.

"Do the SWP not centrally produce posters for London demos, campaigns, Marxism etc. anymore?" Yes, but we are not just a 'London' based group. We flogged our old printer and warehouse and now have swanky new offices instead, (and because of advances in printing its cheaper to get other people to do it - and less time consuming)

LilMissHissyFit - Fear not! As we will be coming to a college near you! OK, we'll be doing stuff at uni of Glam. Due to some really successful stalls there at the end of the last academic year. PM me if you would like to know what we are up to and when, and I'll keep you informed
 
osterberg said:
Damn!Didn't edit fast enough.
Your writing style and views are very like this idiot I know and I thought you might be him.And I can't stand him.
My humblest apologies. :( :(
Click to expand...


Thats okay.

Was he around back then too?...I might remember him!
 
sorry mate - I was around at the time and haven't got a clue who you are or what you are talking about!
Click to expand...

Well you can´t have been active then.

Were you at any demos, meetings protests etc in the early to mid 90s?

If so you´ll almost certainly remember who I am.

As I said - how do you want me to prove this?

"I was a student organiser in a college of the UofW (not paid obviously) in the early 90s." In other words you were a student who drifted in and out of SWSS briefly. We would never be pompous enough to bestow the title organiser on any one member who happened to be at college.
Click to expand...

What title would you use then?

The points made still apply.



"Do the SWP not centrally produce posters for London demos, campaigns, Marxism etc. anymore?" Yes, but we are not just a 'London' based group. We flogged our old printer and warehouse and now have swanky new offices instead, (and because of advances in printing its cheaper to get other people to do it - and less time consuming)
Click to expand...

Okay. Times have changed then.
 
Incidentally, if anyone wants to keep the thread alive re the chances of a "Welsh Left" and the relationship between the various groups and the national question, I´d be interested...

you can always PM me about who I am and whether you you remember me if you feel the need.
 
"Were you at any demos, meetings protests etc in the early to mid 90s?
If so you´ll almost certainly remember who I am." I probably helped organise most of them and still don't have the foggiest who you are

"As I said - how do you want me to prove this?" Just PM your name to me - I'm hardly going to send the boys round :rolleyes: Besides this is probably getting pretty tedious for anyone who wanted to follow the original thread.

"The points made still apply." You didn't make any except to say you witnessed some disgraceful behaviour. In my experience thats WHY people go to college ;)

I must admit the human sacrifices, orgies complete with vodka jelly with added coke and the ritual Tony Cliff deification poem wore a bit thin after a while :D How did it go.... 'Oh Cliff! Cliff! oh oasis in the desert! Oh brightest Star in the night sky! Oh how we Worship Thee! Oh everlasting dialectician!Oh jewel in all our crowns! We are not worthy to float in the toilet bowl in which you defecate!' This had to be sung to the tune of 'The Internationale'. Oh hang on a minute - I'm getting mixed up with Gerry Healey and the WRP :D
 
seriously though, a visit to this link gives you an idea of how much CG tried to bury their politics whilst in FW -
http://www.newswales.co.uk/?section=Politics&F=1&id=6401

I'll cut and paste a snippett here. Whilst it was an obvious attempt at a press whitch-hunt, and the terrorism stuff is all tabloid bollocks, denying having anything to do CG is hardly a position of principle for one of its more senior members is it?


‘Marek man denies terror link
11/4/2003
Dr John Marek's election running mate Marc Jones this week denied he had any association with an organisation supporting terrorism.

Earlier this week the Wrexham Evening Leader revealed Marc Jones, who is standing as a John Marek Independent candidate for the Clwyd South seat in the Welsh Assembly, had been a member of Cymru Goch and that the group had published statements of solidarity to the Irish Republican Socialist Party (IRSP) which has links to the terrorist group the Irish National Liberation Army.

Later this week Mr Jones maintained he had disassociated himself from Cymru Goch years ago. Mr Jones said: "I am no longer involved with Cymru Goch." '
 
nwnm said:
Later this week Mr Jones maintained he had disassociated himself from Cymru Goch years ago. Mr Jones said: "I am no longer involved with Cymru Goch." '
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Out of curiousity how do you know this statement is untrue?
 
the claim to have resigned CG years ago is a bit of an overstatement.

In January 2002 he was the CG representative on the editorial board of Welsh Socialist Voice, he walked out of the WSA (with the rest of CG) in May 2002, and FW was set up in November 2003. Even being generous and pretending CG dissolved after leaving the WSA (which they didn't) would give you 18 months - but not years.... I think thats called poetic licence.
 
nwnm said:
the claim to have resigned CG years ago is a bit of an overstatement.

In January 2002 he was the CG representative on the editorial board of Welsh Socialist Voice, he walked out of the WSA (with the rest of CG) in May 2002, and FW was set up in November 2003. Even being generous and pretending CG dissolved after leaving the WSA (which they didn't) would give you 18 months - but not years.... I think thats called poetic licence.
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So its not evidence of CG burying their politics but a possible 'dissembling' by one probably ex-member. Not saying you are wrong but this isn't proof of anything either way. Besides maybe he left CG soon after May 2002 which would make it years.
How do you know CG didn't dissolve when FW was set up? I can't find any evidence of their continuing existence. Again not saying you are wrong but its not beyond possibility that CG did dissolve if only for the practical reasons of their members working for another political project in FW. A small group would find it hard to keep going under those circumstances.
 
Even allowing for this, highly unlikely scenario, would make it a couple of years from the press article I cut and pasted but not years as in - when was the last time england won the world cup? Now theres an example of poetic licence V poetic justice :D

I think CG did dissolve formally as a 'public' organisation (i.e. no magazine, aside from the slightly boader Seren,) but carried on in the way some of the more clandestine groups in Scargill's SLP did (or even the entrist groups in the Labour Party). The thing that would have kept them going would have been pushing for independence to become the policy of FW (and changing the name of the organisation). Again, in this thread, independence has been flagged up as a major bone of contention - as it was in the WSA. 'Formally' dissolving their organisation was seen as a price worth paying for keeping out what they describe as the 'Brit Left'.
 
nwnm said:
Even allowing for this, highly unlikely scenario, would make it a couple of years from the press article I cut and pasted but not years as in - when was the last time england won the world cup? Now theres an example of poetic licence V poetic justice :D

I think CG did dissolve formally as a 'public' organisation (i.e. no magazine, aside from the slightly boader Seren,) but carried on in the way some of the more clandestine groups in Scargill's SLP did (or even the entrist groups in the Labour Party). The thing that would have kept them going would have been pushing for independence to become the policy of FW (and changing the name of the organisation). Again, in this thread, independence has been flagged up as a major bone of contention - as it was in the WSA. 'Formally' dissolving their organisation was seen as a price worth paying for keeping out what they describe as the 'Brit Left'.
Click to expand...
Hmm thats the problem with accusing a group of being clandestine...by its nature evidence is a problem. Are you saying you have some inside information that they continued as a 'disciplined' group or just an assumption? It'll be interesting to see if a CG or similar re-emerges now that FW is going down the pan.
 
"we went to the pub at lunchtime (not a walk out) and just never made it back!"

"Are you saying you have some inside information that they continued as a 'disciplined' group or just an assumption?"

I think judging by the first quote (from niclas) the words 'disciplined' and 'Cymru Goch' do not sit together at all well :D

I think I will be interested in what happens to both sides from the Forward Wales experiment
 
strictly speaking

Now that these so called 'activists' have left FW , and I think the door was left open for them to walk, does that mean that the likes of Marc Jones and Maurice - that 'web secretary genius' will go back to Cymru Goch? is it still operating? they seem to be having problems with their web site, I hope what ever they do they don't let the FW ex-web sec. get his hands on it..
 
socialistcelt said:
Now that these so called 'activists' have left FW , and I think the door was left open for them to walk, does that mean that the likes of Marc Jones and Maurice - that 'web secretary genius' will go back to Cymru Goch? is it still operating? they seem to be having problems with their web site, I hope what ever they do they don't let the FW ex-web sec. get his hands on it..
Click to expand...
If you've got some inside info why don't you spill the beans? Why so coy?
 
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