Football revolution?

[steeplejack]

Tangerine Dream- I see Billy Dearden's left Bloomfield Road for, of all place, MK Dongs.

Bit of a shocker that...whose going to organise Hendry tactically now?

 

[tangerinedream]

Tangerine Dream- I see Billy Dearden's left Bloomfield Road for, of all place, MK Dongs.

Bit of a shocker that...whose going to organise Hendry tactically now?

Oh, Big Cols got it all sorted. He's all grown up now. He didn't take Billy on tour to Scotland with him and we managed to beat Keith.....

We've got Ian Miller, ex Blackburn rovers youth chap - he'll probably be number two. Larry (Simon) Grayson has done a brilliant job with the reserves, he'd be my shout if Hendry left, he's got them organised and playing on the floor - and he played 30 odd games for the first team.

One or two thoughts suggest Tony Parkes might be tempted....

To be honest, stringing four across the back and then hoofing forward doesn't take a huge amount of tatical organisation.

 

[ernestolynch]

One of the many Cardiff owners dreamt up some ludicrous scheme were the club would be - quite literally - owned by 'the kids'.

It was all bollocks of course.

Truth is that we wouldn't need so many breakaway clubs if people supported their local teams instead of helping to create superstar teams miles from their hometown...

(Wimbledon excepted, natch)

Indeed - poor Dulwich Hamlet.

 

[kained&able]

Far better that they continue pumping money into manchester united?

what are the odds of them not pumping money into man utd still though. bet they will continue to buy man utd shirts look for the results and still hate man city.

Have more respect for wimbeldon who almost geniunly no longer have a club to support beacuse of that sham of an mkdons whom most wimbeldon supporters wont give two fucks about. rather then this manure mk2.

dave

 

[chieftain]

why? If you hate Man U surely you'd be applauding them walking away?

I dont applaude shit fans

 

[Sorry.]

I dont applaude shit fans

I dare say you've never done anything so time consuming as setting up a new football club because you've finally realised what a crock of shit the team you support is. Doesn't sound like shit fans to me.

 

[spacemonkey]

One of the many Cardiff owners dreamt up some ludicrous scheme were the club would be - quite literally - owned by 'the kids'.

It was all bollocks of course.

Truth is that we wouldn't need so many breakaway clubs if people supported their local teams instead of helping to create superstar teams miles from their hometown...

(Wimbledon excepted, natch)

Exactly, if people support the club nearest to them, the huge disparity between clubs would disappear. The amount of premiership kits you see in Cardiff is disgusting.

 

[steeplejack]

It's the same everywhere. Where I live, there are only 2-3 people who wear the colours of the local team, vastly outnumbered by Old Firm shirts and a lesser number of Premier League shirts.

Which is why the establishment of FCUM has been greeted less than charitably in some quarters.

 

[Sorry.]

Which is why the establishment of FCUM has been greeted less than charitably in some quarters.

I don't understand the connection. Aren't the FCUM people at least in part trying to escape the same people you've got a problem with?

 

[steeplejack]

I welcome their founding- I'm just giving my view, as I see it, as to why others don't.

For some, the fans who've finally left to form FCUM are those who sat silently and applauded as the old egalitarian Football League was destroyed and replaced by a fundamentally unfair system where millions and millions of punds are required to progress and stya at the top- and hundreds of millions from a bottomless pit of money are required to actually win the thing.

the samew fans who sat by and watched footballing power concentrated in the hands of a very few club chairman and marketing/business/PR leeches who saw football as an easy way to trun a buck.

For some the connection between the two is pretty obvious, it would seem, not that i necessarily agree with that POV.

 

[Chorlton]

I welcome their founding- I'm just giving my view, as I see it, as to why others don't.

For some, the fans who've finally left to form FCUM are those who sat silently and applauded as the old egalitarian Football League was destroyed and replaced by a fundamentally unfair system where millions and millions of punds are required to progress and stya at the top- and hundreds of millions from a bottomless pit of money are required to actually win the thing.

the samew fans who sat by and watched footballing power concentrated in the hands of a very few club chairman and marketing/business/PR leeches who saw football as an easy way to trun a buck.

For some the connection between the two is pretty obvious, it would seem, not that i necessarily agree with that POV.

No. As I see it, they are not the same people.

Man United fans did speak up about everything that effected their club, there was those that spoke out in 91/92, and they spoke out about the use of sweatshops to make their kit - there is an element to united that has spoken out about all of these things - of course, there is an element that has not - the dick down the pub with the new replica shirt every season who couldn't find OT on a map - but they will continue to 'support' the club at M16 - but then there are those that have decided enough is enough, they spoke up when the EPL was dreamt up, spoke up when murdoch came to town and spoke up about a lot of things - it was painfully obvious that the custodians of the club couldn't give a shit either way - as long as there were money spinning tours and market opportunities why would they, they can always fill OT with more customers - so, that element left to form FC United

Maybe they should have walked in 92, maybe later i don't know why but i would guess its something to do with the fact that it isn't to easy to do what looks to many like walking away from your club, but now AFC have shown it can be done - AFC gave a HUGE amount of support to FCUM in the early days and i think still are - so now the fans are having a say that will be heard by the club. Its not just about glazer, but rather the culmination of a list of problems that have been brewing - the custodians at M16s biggest NikeStore do not represent them or what United means to them - so that left one thing to do...

They will however continue to represent the kids in towns around the country where the local teams do not do what they can to attract the local kids, will continue to represent the dick in yer local with a replica shirt who has never been and continue to represent day-trippers OT to spend money in the mega store - because thats what it is now all about.

 

[steeplejack]

No. As I see it, they are not the same people.

Man United fans did speak up about everything that effected their club, there was those that spoke out in 91/92, and they spoke out about the use of sweatshops to make their kit - there is an element to united that has spoken out about all of these things - of course, there is an element that has not - the dick down the pub with the new replica shirt every season who couldn't find OT on a map - but they will continue to 'support' the club at M16 - but then there are those that have decided enough is enough, they spoke up when the EPL was dreamt up, spoke up when murdoch came to town and spoke up about a lot of things - it was painfully obvious that the custodians of the club couldn't give a shit either way - as long as there were money spinning tours and market opportunities why would they, they can always fill OT with more customers - so, that element left to form FC United

Maybe they should have walked in 92, maybe later i don't know why but i would guess its something to do with the fact that it isn't to easy to do what looks to many like walking away from your club, but now AFC have shown it can be done - AFC gave a HUGE amount of support to FCUM in the early days and i think still are - so now the fans are having a say that will be heard by the club. Its not just about glazer, but rather the culmination of a list of problems that have been brewing - the custodians at M16s biggest NikeStore do not represent them or what United means to them - so that left one thing to do...

They will however continue to represent the kids in towns around the country where the local teams do not do what they can to attract the local kids, will continue to represent the dick in yer local with a replica shirt who has never been and continue to represent day-trippers OT to spend money in the mega store - because thats what it is now all about.

Hmmn, were their objections widely covered in the local press?

Because, from a distance, I haven't heard anything of the campaigns you mention- the first time I came across militant MUFC fans was when Murdoch threatened to take the reins. I have to stress again i support the founding of FCUM and don;t necessarily agree with the views outlined above.

On a nit picky point too- the idea of a 'fans club' didn't start with AFCW. newport and Aldershot had, of necessity, to reform their own clubs after boardroom shysters, egomaniacs and incompetents saw their old Football League teams bankrupted in the late 80s/early 90s. I believe the Newport fans who re-formed as Newport AFC in 1989 were quite helpful to the Dons in their first few months, and AFCW played a friendly a couple of season back at Newport Stadium, perhaps by way of thanks.

 

[Epicurus]

Exactly. Apart from Stockport, how many other fan-run clubs are there?

In Germany, I believe clubs HAVE to be fan-owned to be in the Bundesliga.

S.C. Corinthians Paulista is a club owned and run by it's supporters and it has won the World Club championship.

 

[Chorlton]

Hmmn, were their objections widely covered in the local press?

no idea, never lived in manchester at the time - outside of WSC i never read of a lot of objection to it - whether it was covered outside of fanzines i honestly have no idea. As you say the murdoch move did certainly galvanise them dramatically tho.

On a nit picky point too- the idea of a 'fans club' didn't start with AFCW. newport and Aldershot had, of necessity, to reform their own clubs after boardroom shysters, egomaniacs and incompetents saw their old Football League teams bankrupted in the late 80s/early 90s. I believe the Newport fans who re-formed as Newport AFC in 1989 were quite helpful to the Dons in their first few months, and AFCW played a friendly a couple of season back at Newport Stadium, perhaps by way of thanks.

i did not mean it to come across like a i thought they were, however they are high profile, well executed example and have a some people who sit on governmental boards to approach as well.

 

[editor]

Indeed - poor Dulwich Hamlet.

I support my home town team and will continue to do so whatever division they're in, even if it's non-league or a Sunday kick about.

How about you?

 

[kained&able]

but thats how these things start isn't it mike?

if you had kid they would support cardiff which isn't there home town team and soon you end up with legions of offspring who don't support there home town team beacuse they have inherited thier team from thier parents.

surely your home is where you live now.

that being said there is noway im supporting mkdons or luton over west ham.

dave

 

[Rocket Romano]

Its hardly a revolution is it?

Come August, 67,000 people will pack out Old Trafford and will do until May.

 

[ernestolynch]

but thats how these things start isn't it mike?

if you had kid they would support cardiff which isn't there home town team and soon you end up with legions of offspring who don't support there home town team beacuse they have inherited thier team from thier parents.

surely your home is where you live now.

that being said there is noway im supporting mkdons or luton over west ham.

dave

I did approach editor with this argument before, but he declined to see my point...particularly as my 'local' league team growing up was 2 hours away, and my family connections team, where I spent every weekend, was 2.5 hours away (and five minutes from my mam's family home)

 

[ernestolynch]

No. As I see it, they are not the same people.

Man United fans did speak up about everything that effected their club, there was those that spoke out in 91/92, and they spoke out about the use of sweatshops to make their kit - there is an element to united that has spoken out about all of these things - of course, there is an element that has not - the dick down the pub with the new replica shirt every season who couldn't find OT on a map - but they will continue to 'support' the club at M16 - but then there are those that have decided enough is enough, they spoke up when the EPL was dreamt up, spoke up when murdoch came to town and spoke up about a lot of things - it was painfully obvious that the custodians of the club couldn't give a shit either way - as long as there were money spinning tours and market opportunities why would they, they can always fill OT with more customers - so, that element left to form FC United

Maybe they should have walked in 92, maybe later i don't know why but i would guess its something to do with the fact that it isn't to easy to do what looks to many like walking away from your club, but now AFC have shown it can be done - AFC gave a HUGE amount of support to FCUM in the early days and i think still are - so now the fans are having a say that will be heard by the club. Its not just about glazer, but rather the culmination of a list of problems that have been brewing - the custodians at M16s biggest NikeStore do not represent them or what United means to them - so that left one thing to do...

They will however continue to represent the kids in towns around the country where the local teams do not do what they can to attract the local kids, will continue to represent the dick in yer local with a replica shirt who has never been and continue to represent day-trippers OT to spend money in the mega store - because thats what it is now all about.

Spot on.Not that the ABUs and small-minded people will read it...

 

[ernestolynch]

Article on ESPN about FCUM:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=337683&cc=5739

 

[chriswill]

Its hardly a revolution is it?

Come August, 67,000 people will pack out Old Trafford and will do until May.

More like 70,000 witht the extension.

 

[chieftain]

I dare say you've never done anything so time consuming as setting up a new football club because you've finally realised what a crock of shit the team you support is. Doesn't sound like shit fans to me.

You're right on two of your three assumptions

 

[ernestolynch]

You're right on two of your three assumptions

Do you have anything to contribute to the topick of supporter-owned football clubs, or are you here to be a small-minded ABU pissant, one who doesn't even support his own fucking hometown team at that!

 

[Sorry.]

You're right on two of your three assumptions

what's your definition of good fans then?

 

[chieftain]

what's your definition of good fans then?

everyone know Newcastle has the best fans in the world

 

[Sorry.]

everyone know Newcastle has the best fans in the world

but that they aren't as massive as city...

 

[chieftain]

Do you have anything to contribute to the topick of supporter-owned football clubs,

Yes and I do agree that they're a great idea, saying that though it makes me laugh that FCUM have taken so long to do anything about the goings on at there club which lets face it, have been fucking the fans since long before Glaizer and Co pulled into town.

or are you here to be a small-minded ABU pissant,

quite possibly yes but compared to your record my "small-minded ABU pissant" approach is still in its infancy

one who doesn't even support his own fucking hometown team at that!

TBH I didnt even know if my home town had a club when I was a child, I know now that it has and I've watched them on a fair few occasions but hey Im not a turn coat so Im sticking with Spurs, whom other than being Geographically on a par with ARSEnal as being the nearest (20 mins) club big enough to interest me as a small child are also the first team I saw and the team my family support (other than Mrs Chieftain who is an ARSEnal fan)

 

[chieftain]

but that they aren't as massive as city...

In all honesty my definition of good fans would be made up of a combination of these factors:

Club knowledge, Good Attitude, Length of service, Banter at matches, Intelligent banter in general, attending matches and interest in their club, understanding that they have no individual control over there club and that its not life and death.... its now business, its a game, a hobby and a way to pass the time.

 

[Sorry.]

understanding that they have no individual control over there club and that its not life and death.... its now business, its a game, a hobby and a way to pass the time.

What's this bit doing in here? Why does accepting whatever bollocks the club wants to chuck you make you a good fan?

 

[ernestolynch]

What's this bit doing in here? Why does accepting whatever bollocks the club wants to chuck you make you a good fan?

Absolute bollocks and just the sort of fan leeching club owners want.