Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Red About Town, Jul 24, 2018.
No one should ever use the word lasses unless they are Scottish.
The people of Yorkshire might take issue with that.
I'll allow it.
They use it in north Manchester
Used in Lancs too... but in Stoke, would the correct term be football wenches???
The term of endearment in the Potteries would be 'duck'.
Because it is aimed at a certain audience at a guess. All too many people, football fans included, have a view of all those who selfrefer as 'lads' ie those who have, who do and who will get involved in terrace culture events ie displays, fights, pyro, smokes etc are de facto all fash/loyalist/racist types without exception. All too many on the Left have this attitude too, as has been demonstrated on all too many SDL/anti SDL demos up here. Add that into the fact that within minutes of 'normal' fans finding out would be the refrain 'they're not real fan's etc etc.... it is a deliberate move, I presume to make it clear that whilst they may be 'lads' they are most certainly not racist etc and militantly so. And, most obviously imho, it is a direct rebuttal of the FLA/DFLA/EDL/SDL who are increasingly working amongst that section of supporters....
Exactly. Far right are using terrace culture but a huge sections of casuals don't have any truck with racist bullshit. An attempt to show that.
Not in my experance.
I lived in Stoke for five years in the early 80s and worked in one of the bigger pottery factories for a while. Duck was always a greeting or term of endearment but it was never a variant of lass. And if my memory serves me right, the equivalent of lads and lasses was youths and wenches. What all this has to do with an antifascist football crew though...
FLAF is a group by, and for, football lads and lasses. We are not a liberal pressure group, nor are we affiliated to any political party, organisation, or other campaign. There are plenty of those around for people to choose from. Our bottom line is anti-fascism and football. For us the two go together, and that is our basis for existing. If you're an anti-fascist then excellent, but if you're not a football fan or are thinking of forcing yourself to become a football fan, for the sake of joining us, then there are other groups out there for you.
We chose the term 'Against Fascism' deliberately because it implies a militant response to all instances of discrimination at football and in wider society. It is also the case that the fascists have politically evolved and see less currency in overt racism, even widening their scope to include some people of colour. By attempting to curb their own racist instincts they have only confirmed that this is a long-term fascist political project which has the support of the entire European far-right.
It's time now for those fans who oppose the rise of the right at football to stand up and be counted. As well as mobilising against their marches, we need to counter them at our own clubs, by whatever means is necessary, from leaflet and sticker campaigns to gentle persuasion.
As we said in the first post:
* FLAF is about building a progressive alternative to the recent far-right revival among football firms in Britain.
* The page is run by football fans for football fans.
* We oppose all forms of racism & discrimination.
* We welcome all progressive anti-racist & anti-fascist football supporters - lads & lasses - to our cause
You don't think the name is a bit binary when it comes to gender? Not everyone wants to describe themselves as a 'lad' or a 'lass.'
Sorry but it's a terrible name that is more likely to hinder your aims.
Sqabbles about 'binary genders' and the like are a turn off for a lot of people. It may not be perfect but 'lad' really isn't an offensive term and I'm sure just as many people will identify with it then with a generic catch all.
I have some experience of running a reasonably effective fans-based football campaign, and in my opinion this Lads and Lasses nomenclature is toe curlingly cringey and puts me right off from the start.
its pretty obviously a deliberate attempt to push back vs the FLA etc, and needs to reflect that in the name - 'Fans' just doesn't say the same thing, its isn't the same thing.
Its a bit like the Apprentice isn't it when everyone wants to be on the marketing side of the project
So you got to be a 'lad' or a 'lass' to get involved? That's me out then.
would never remotely consider myself / refer to myself etc as a ' lad ' , but the use of the term in the name FLAF immediately says a lot about what the organisation is about, what it's attitude to working class involvement in anti fascism is, and more. And tho not considering myself in any way, shape or form a lad, the use of it wouldn't put me off FLAF for a moment.
How about football folk against facism?
Nah fam. #LadzLadzLadz
Excellent post by Philip Bruce:
"Football Lads And Lasses Against Fascism
Here’s my take; In the 70s the NF tried to recruit football fans as muscle for their anti-immigrant racist ideologies. Fast forward 40 years and the so-called Football Lads Alliance are exactly the same.
So let’s get this straight. When these divs chant “whose streets? Our streets!” and “ we want our country back!” Let’s look at their actual standing in the world.
90% are probably within the lowest income bracket of the country. The only thing they have to cling to is their sense of patriotism, a desperate belief thst they are somehow valued and respected by the very people that fuck them over in their everyday hand to mouth existence. Hey, they may be poor but at least they’re not Pakis !
Dig this brother! The streets were never yours. The country was never yours. Your class was called upon to protect the economic interests of your slave owners time and time and time again and you fell for the same divvy trick time and time and time again.
You own fuck all! You count for fuck all! You are the sad little puppets of the state who need division in order to protect their own stolen wealth.
If you are from a council estate and you find yourself supporting toff halfwits like Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson or even that Luton shithouse, Yaxley-Lennon then you need to give yer swede a swivel.
The city boys and the bankers and the spies and the judges, the lords and the ladies, the Tories and the Liberals, The Blairites and the Bobbies,The media tycoons and the fascist buffoons rely on your support. Even as they fuck you over, they can pat your heads and tell you you’re doing it for the right reasons.
There is no national identity, only a con trick to slaughter working class men and women in the name of the “national interest.” Think how many of our class died in Ypres, the Somme, Normandy, Burma, Korea, Ireland, the Falklands, Afghanistan, Iraq -and for what?
Life goes on. So called terrorists are now partners in government. Yesterday’s enemies are today’s allies. But your son is dead. Deals are done. Arms are sold. Hands are shaken.But your son is dead. Contracts are signed.Despots are feted. Red carpets are rolled out. But your son is dead.
For those who believe”class warfare” died with the miners, think on! Look around you. Look at your life and think who is really to blame. The muslims or the Poles, the socialists or the single mums, the gays or the homeless.
Think who really robs you! Day in, day out! You and your kids and yer ma and da, and yer neighbours and yer mates and yer colleagues. Who gets rich off you?"
In Derbyshire duck is gender neutral term of endearment.
And in Notts.
This could hark back to heyday of AFA when for example S. York’s AFA had people who would identify as Barnsley, Donny, Blades or Wednesday fans and there were links with some of those doing fanzines such as the Donny one at that time and people inspired by St Pauli and Celtic culture etc.
Other regional AFA groups were also built around friendship groups that socialised around MUFC, Liverpool etc if iirc.
Separate names with a comma.