FIT Watch @ Climate Camp

[Thora]

agreed, he followed me to the offie on mayday

He's my favourite one.

 

[detective-boy]

Having witnessed a dozen arrests for it in the past week, this 'good practice' does not extend to Oracle and TSG units.

In my experience of public disorder including the deployment of such units, arrests are often not for s.5 POA offences (though that may end up as the charge) but for the more serious offences of s.4 (fear or provocation of violence) or s.3 (affray) or assaults / obstruction of police.

 

[detective-boy]

If FIT teams have no powers, would you care to explain the huge numbers of assaults an arrests i have experienced and witnessed as a result of their actions.

I didn't say they had no powers. I pointed out that many of the members of FIT teams (in fact the central ones to the teams purpose) are, in fact, civilian photographers and, as such, they do not have the powers of constables. And I pointed out that their role was not one of using force, but of gathering intelligence. If, whilst doing so, they are obstructed / attacked, the officers will, of course, use such powers to use force as they have ... but usually simply to withdraw safely unless a decision has been made to support the FIT team with other units (such as the TSG proper). I have simply been making the point that people seem to be attributing all sorts of activities to "FIT teams", when much of it is done by other units.

 

[detective-boy]

They are they to intimidate and harass people.

I have already said that if that is the case then those people should sue. Known activists are targetted, sure (that is the whole point, after all). But the activities (which involve a clear interference with the right to privacy) must be proportionate and necessary otherwise the courts will find them unlawful.

 

[detective-boy]

You are under the misapprehension that sitting in an armchair reading The Job makes you an expert on the real world activities of FIT teams.

Fine. If that's what you think, great. Live in your own little world where you are all-seeing and all-knowing. Bye.

(But, for your information, my comments are based on my experience of working with FIT teams as a bronze commander and specialist public disorder SIO and on speaking with current officers on a regular basis. I haven't read "The Job" for years.)

 

[Blagsta]

I have already said that if that is the case then those people should sue. Known activists are targetted, sure (that is the whole point, after all). But the activities (which involve a clear interference with the right to privacy) must be proportionate and necessary otherwise the courts will find them unlawful.

Following people around and photographing them is intimidating. Funnily enough, they don't like it when the same is done to them. They tend to get quite agressive ime.

 

[lights.out.london]

my comments are based on my experience of working with FIT teams as a bronze commander

How many lengths of the baths do you have to do to get "gold"? We had to do a mile without touching the bottom of the pool with our feet.

 

[TAE]

Has anyone here ever seen a policeman arrest another policeman during a protest ?

 

[The Black Hand]

I have already said that if that is the case then those people should sue. Known activists are targetted, sure (that is the whole point, after all). But the activities (which involve a clear interference with the right to privacy) must be proportionate and necessary otherwise the courts will find them unlawful.

Bollox - they are seriously into intimidation. You are spouting the usual 'isn't the law wonderful rubbish rhetoric'. Your record and cds are stuck, and they were tired and stale to begin with.

 

[lights.out.london]

I remember D-B writing a while ago that people should sue/complain about (aggressive/inappropriate) police behaviour at things like demos, protest marches and football matches. I said it then and I'll say it again - being a police officer really really does distort one's view of reality.

D-B : why do your colleagues remove their numbers and badges of rank when policing mass-attended events etc? I've even seen officers [in a certain sea port] remove their numbers on Friday and Saturday nights when rattling around town.

 

[The Black Hand]

I remember D-B writing a while ago that people should sue/complain about (aggressive/inappropriate) police behaviour at things like demos, protest marches and football matches. I said it then and I'll say it again - being a police officer really really does distort one's view of reality.

D-B : why do your colleagues remove their numbers and badges of rank when policing mass-attended events etc? I've even seen officers [in a certain sea port] remove their numbers on Friday and Saturday nights when rattling around town.

Let me guess...

 

[lights.out.london]

I was kind of being rhetorical, but yet allowing enough yardage for D-B to use lots of these -

 

[The Black Hand]

I was kind of being rhetorical, but yet allowing enough yardage for D-B to use lots of these -

DB needs to be regularly wound up and let go, and then smashed. It's his democratic right to spout pro police rhetoric, and our democratic right to take the piss and/or ignore him

 

[The Black Hand]

I would like to see phots of the FIT team turned over and spread eagled on the ground, prefereably in colour to get the full effect THey are long overdue a serious taste of their own medicine and I hope the Anarchist death squad force will give them a good hiding

 

[lights.out.london]

Would make a great front cover ...

 

[TAE]

I would like to see photos of the FIT team members who have broken the law being arrested (on the spot) by the other police officers, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[detective-boy]

I remember D-B writing a while ago that people should sue/complain about (aggressive/inappropriate) police behaviour at things like demos, protest marches and football matches.

So what do you suggest, then? The ONLY way of policing the police is if people persistently complain of unlawful and inappropriate behaviour.

I fail to see why you ridicule such a view. Don't just slag it off (I know this is a difficult concept for "activists" ... ), suggest a viable alternative.

 

[LX365]

So what do you suggest, then? The ONLY way of policing the police is if people persistently complain of unlawful and inappropriate behaviour.

I fail to see why you ridicule such a view. Don't just slag it off (I know this is a difficult concept for "activists" ... ), suggest a viable alternative.

Complaining is generally a lot of hassle for very little result. It IS worth doing because the record of the complaint goes on the cop's record, but the reality is it means fuck all. More importantly it doesn't offer any remedy to those who have suffered trauma as a result of their actions.

The only way to police the police is through direct action and by building a culture of distrust and suspicion of the police.

Initiatives such as FIT Watch, aim both to take direct action against the police, turning their tactics back upon them. It probably should be expanded to some kind of Police Watch which encourages people to intervene everytime they see cops hassling someone.

On a personal note, this is the most empowered I've felt in years dealing with the FIT. They are far more uncomfortable with what we're doing now then they ever have been by complaints or civil cases.

 

[detective-boy]

It probably should be expanded to some kind of Police Watch which encourages people to intervene everytime they see cops hassling someone.

Hardly a wise suggestion, bearing in mind a passer-by hasn't got any idea what the "hassle" has originated from. Observing police behaviour, witnessing what has happened and questioning / reporting it later, fine.

Intervening in something you know nothing about - no, a recipe for disaster.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Hardly a wise suggestion, bearing in mind a passer-by hasn't got any idea what the "hassle" has originated from. Observing police behaviour, witnessing what has happened and questioning / reporting it later, fine.

Intervening in something you know nothing about - no, a recipe for disaster.

i stopped and asked someone if they were ok when they were being stopped and searched at mile end the other day. they had already given their name by then. It doesn't hurt to check that someone is ok and witness what is happening. I didn't intervene and stood back. Just made eye contact with the stoppee (as it were) and asked if they were ok. It can be lonely and embarrassing to be stopped in the street for no good reason.

 

[detective-boy]

It can be lonely and embarrassing to be stopped in the street for no good reason.

What you did sounds OK.

And it reminds me of another thing to bear in mind - does the person realy want some random passer-by knowing their business? (One guy I was in the process of nicking for a robbery (fitted description, credit cards found on search) certainly didn't when someone demanded to know what he was being arrested for ... "Look mate, just fuck off. It ain't none of your business ..." as he said). And for that reason the police officers would be reluctant to get into much detail.

 

[lights.out.london]

I fail to see why you ridicule such a view. Don't just slag it off (I know this is a difficult concept for "activists" ... ), suggest a viable alternative.

I'm not sure that what I've written constitutes 'ridicule'. And I'm not sure it's for me to suggest a viable alternative.

Regardless - the Establishment will always cover for its own and for the class traitors who support their status quo. Perhaps the only way to fight police brutality/violence/heavy handedness is to meet like with like.

 

[lights.out.london]

e2a - I may have the opportunity to test the cops complaints procedures. BTP at London Bridge yesterday (see mugging thread on main forum). If I decide to make a complaint, I'll let you know how I get on.