female drummers

[phildwyer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Maloney

"Samantha Maloney is a drummer, born in Manhattan, New York on December 11, 1975, best known for playing in the bands Hole, Mötley Crüe, and her current band Eagles of Death Metal. She is currently touring with Peaches and opening for Nine Inch Nails."

Phildwyer says give it up luv.

I said women could be very good, but not great, drummers. Samantha Maloney is not Buddy Rich, or Louis Belsen, or even Gene Krupa or Keith Moon. Or even Nikki Sixx.

 

[fishfingerer]

I said women could be very good, but not great, drummers. Samantha Maloney is not Buddy Rich, or Louis Belsen, or even Gene Krupa or Keith Moon. Or even Nikki Sixx.

No. You said "drumming depends too much on physical strength and stamina for women to be as good as men."

Are you saying that Samantha Maloney (one example) does not actually have enough stamina and strength to play with rock bands for the last 15 odd years? Or are you saying that women lack the ability to be great musicians? Somebody tell the bloke from queens of the stone age!

 

[fishfingerer]

ah bollocks, i can't be arsed getting drawn into this shite.

 

[phildwyer]

No. You said "drumming depends too much on physical strength and stamina for women to be as good as men."

Are you saying that Samantha Maloney (one example) does not actually have enough stamina and strength to play with rock bands for the last 15 odd years? Or are you saying that women lack the ability to be great musicians? Somebody tell the bloke from queens of the stone age!

First of all, drummers aren't musicians. And I was speaking about the *average* skills of men and women, suggesting that *on average* women would not be as good as men, and that this explains the lack of truly *great* female drummers as opposed to those who are merely very good, of whom there are many, though again far less than there are men. For obvious reasons.

 

[mpython]

In my experience in most things women are the ones with the stamina!

 

[fishfingerer]

First of all, drummers aren't musicians.

Didn't Mark E.Smith say he reckons that women make better musicans than men in that recent documentary? What would he know eh?

You're confusing muso bollocks with the ability to make good music.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

First of all, drummers aren't musicians. .

I always thought that a drum was a percussion instrument, and that one who plays an instrument, is a musician.

 

[northernhord]

First of all, drummers aren't musicians. And I was speaking about the *average* skills of men and women, suggesting that *on average* women would not be as good as men, and that this explains the lack of truly *great* female drummers as opposed to those who are merely very good, of whom there are many, though again far less than there are men. For obvious reasons.

Drummers are musicians, a serious drummer tunes that kit up to certain notes, and of course there is drum music which the drummer can themselves either read or write.

 

[mpython]

First of all, drummers aren't musicians. And I was speaking about the *average* skills of men and women, suggesting that *on average* women would not be as good as men, and that this explains the lack of truly *great* female drummers as opposed to those who are merely very good, of whom there are many, though again far less than there are men. For obvious reasons.

Yeah, though it's probably more to do with the fact that men are generally able to focus on a skill and pursue it singlemindedly without family distractions. Goes for every walk of life.

 

[Dubversion]

funny, phil, because re-reading your posts there was no mention of 'average' or any other backpedalling nonsense to begin with.

Have you been caught out posting specious nonsense again?

 

[sorearm]

how about the drummer from Babes In Toyland? she could rock

*swoons*

too fucking right, I loved babes in toyland when I was in my grunger phase, and yeah, i agree with "samantha maloney from hole" .... they both rawk

 

[phildwyer]

funny, phil, because re-reading your posts there was no mention of 'average' or any other backpedalling nonsense to begin with.

Have you been caught out posting specious nonsense again?

Shoot Boss, I just about guess I have at that. You gone throw me in the pen fer real this time?

 

[mpython]

I would have thought that a good drummer would need to have a great sense of rhythm and to be able to keep that going for a couple of hours. Don't know about you but in my experience women are better than men at that.

 

[northernhord]

funny, phil, because re-reading your posts there was no mention of 'average' or any other backpedalling nonsense to begin with.

Have you been caught out posting specious nonsense again?

Seconded, this fucker is a great mover of goal posts that dont have any goals

 

[phildwyer]

Didn't Mark E.Smith say he reckons that women make better musicans than men in that recent documentary? What would he know eh?

There are, I think, few who would deny that the gentleman of whom you speak is certifiably insane.

 

[tangerinedream]

Stamina is NOT a good measure of drumming skill, stamina is to do with keeping up sustained pace over a period of time and NOT anything to do with intricate timing and progressive patterns which IS what good drumming is all about

word

The woman from hole(samantha thigyum) has a slight advantage over keith moon in the stamina stakes anyhow.

 

[fishfingerer]

On the subject of Motley Crue, I spotted this graffiti while in Venice a few weeks ago.

Was phildwyer responsible? Bless.

 

[fishfingerer]

Lindy Morrison from The Go Betweens.

 

[fishfingerer]

Yer wan, whatserface, from The Arcade Fire plays drums on some tunes live.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I played the drums for many years, its fucking knackering. Yes, some women are stronger than some men, and yes, skill counts as well as strength, but basically the reason there aren't any great women drummers should be bloody obvious even to contrarian bastards like yourself.

Ah, I see that your argument is so strong you've had to gild it with name-calling.

And of course, the lack of "great" (by which I presume you mean professionally acclaimed) female drummers wouldn't be at all attributable to the prevalence of males in most non-classical musical endeavours, would it?

 

[ViolentPanda]

funny, phil, because re-reading your posts there was no mention of 'average' or any other backpedalling nonsense to begin with.

Have you been caught out posting specious nonsense again?

I believe he has, Mr Version. It isn't, after all, a rare occurence.

 

[phildwyer]

And of course, the lack of "great" (by which I presume you mean professionally acclaimed) female drummers wouldn't be at all attributable to the prevalence of males in most non-classical musical endeavours, would it?

A circular argument. For to what, in that case, would you attribute the prevalence of males in such endeavors? To be serious for a moment, surely the time has passed when the absence of women from such categories as "great drummers" can be attributed to social prejudice or to lack of opportunity? That is to say, the "nurture" account of gender difference, perhaps most famously articulated by Woolf, no longer seems adequate. There is nothing inherently sexist in acknowledging that some gender differences are natural. You and I went through this recently with the Wakazashi Controversy: you were proved wrong then, and you are wrong again now.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A circular argument. For to what, in that case, would you attribute the prevalence of males in such endeavors? To be serious for a moment, surely the time has passed when the absence of women from such categories as "great drummers" can be attributed to social prejudice or to lack of opportunity?

Really?
On what exactly do you base this thesis?

That is to say, the "nurture" account of gender difference, perhaps most famously articulated by Woolf, no longer seems adequate. There is nothing inherently sexist in acknowledging that some gender differences are natural.

You're claiming that by dint of their biological structure males are ipso facto better drummers than females. You're not referring to what you percieve as "natural differences", you're attempting to present a case around ideas of "natural superiority".

You and I went through this recently with the Wakazashi Controversy: you were proved wrong then, and you are wrong again now.

Phil you "proved" nothing except your own ignorance on that thread.
After all, you're the person who actually thought that the wakazachi was a "heavy longsword" rather than the medium-weighted, medium length sabre-like sword it is in reality.