Fare evasion notice

[tube-trouble]

not heard anything yet

More than 3 months since the offence, havent heard anything since the letter that came 2 months back... have they forgotten about it?

 

[Herbsman.]

More than 3 months since the offence, havent heard anything since the letter that came 2 months back... have they forgotten about it?

Probably. I had one, once, where I genuinely forgot to buy a ticket. I showed them the 30+ tickets in my wallet to show that I buy a ticket every day, but they wouldn't just let me buy one from them, oh no. I wanted to show them I was honest so I gave them my driving license to prove my address and all that They sent two letters and then left me alone, so I paid a grand total of £0

 

[detective-boy]

More than 3 months since the offence, havent heard anything since the letter that came 2 months back... have they forgotten about it?

The limitation period for summary offences is 6 months so if they haven't "commenced proceedings" by then (which doesn't necessarily mean you would have to hear of it by then, though usually it would because it doesn't take long for a summons to be issued and then it is posted out straight away and they obviously have your correct address) then any criminal proceedings would be out of time.

I suspect they are pretty inefficient and it would not surprise me if it gets forgotten. Fingers crossed for another 3 months!

 

[tube-trouble]

what luck... got prosecution notice today

I got the summons from wimbledon magistrate today. It looks pretty scary and I am required to provide all my income details, my employer name, address, phone no. etc. It also has a form to plead guilty without appearing before court...

What should i do? if i plead by post, will my name go to criminal record?

Please help, I am worried as hell...

 

[detective-boy]

What should i do? if i plead by post, will my name go to criminal record?

Whether you plead guilty by post or not makes absolutely no difference to whether or not they will do all the bits and pieces needed to actually get you on the Police National Computer - I suspect they don't, whichever way it goes but it will make no difference.

If you want to contest the case then you obviously don't plead guilty by post but if you are going to plead guilty then it simply saves you the hassle of turning up.

The fines form is for your means to be assessed. I spoke to friend of mine who is a Magistrate yesterday and she tells me the fines system now works like this:

- Offence is assessed and compared against the recommended level of fine
- The severity of the offence comes up with a level of fine expressed in income units
- Your means (i.e. income) is then assessed and an appropriate fine in £ is decided from the income units.
- They then compare that against the maximum penalty possible for the offence and ensure it is not wholly excessive.

Basically the old system, which led to ridiculously high fines for relatively trivial offences just because the defendent earned a lot has had it's rough edges knocked off it and, whilst there is a differential, it is far less and is kept in proportion to the seriousness of the offence.

The only purpose in appearing in person if you are pleading guilty is to ensure that the penalty is sensible - even if you plead guilty you can address the magistrates about the offence or your circumstances in mitigation - i.e. to try and convince them that it is not as serious as it may look.

I would recommend you take advice from a solicitor (a criminal one (no jokes please - I know they're all "criminal" ...) not a City commercial type!) before making a decision what to do.

 

[RaverDrew]

What would happen if you just ignored it, or sent it back saying "this person no longer lives here, no forwarding address" ?

 

[HackneyE9]

"I work for an investment bank and pay very heavy taxes."

I suggest getting yourself a solicitor and stop boring the rest of us for free legal advice.

 

[moomoo]

Whether you plead guilty by post or not makes absolutely no difference to whether or not they will do all the bits and pieces needed to actually get you on the Police National Computer - I suspect they don't, whichever way it goes but it will make no difference.

What 'bits and pieces' are needed to get onto the Police National Computer?

I didn't pay a train fare when I was about 18 and got fined £5 in court - wouldn't there be a record of it then?

 

[detective-boy]

What 'bits and pieces' are needed to get onto the Police National Computer?

I didn't pay a train fare when I was about 18 and got fined £5 in court - wouldn't there be a record of it then?

There would be arecord at the Court and, if anyone found out about it then it could be used like any other criminal conviction but, in practical terms, a "criminal record" in common parlance only exists in relation to the Police National Computer (PNC).

Entries on the PNC are only made when the proper forms are filled in, and (usually) where there are fingerprints, photographs, DNA, etc. taken. Although in theory entries CAN be made without those additional bits and pieces, I NEVER encountered it being done in twenty years. I ceratinly never came across any prosecution authority other than the police creating a record. It's possible that they did and I just never heard about it, but I suspect they simply don't bother.

 

[detective-boy]

What would happen if you just ignored it, or sent it back saying "this person no longer lives here, no forwarding address" ?

You would (arguably at least) commit an offence of attempting to pervert the course of justice (max. penalty lot of imprisonment). It MAY succeed, it may not. Depends on how determined to get you the individual inspector / prosecutor was, whether they could be bothered.

 

[Guineveretoo]

To be honest, if you're earning a decent wedge, I'd wait until the actual summons comes through and then seek proper legal help.

I'd say that your defence that you were in a hurry might juts work, so long as you can provide evidence of lengthy queues.

This is very good adviceand should be followed.

There are now several legal firms who specialise in these cases, seeing as how these cases are now a lot more common (deliberate decision on the part of TfL). You would be well advised to choose one of the ones who specialise, as they work out cheaper since they already know the background, so don't need to take so long to advise you.

To be honest, and in my humble opinion, there is no point in listening to any other advice from folks on this site at this stage. You need to get specialist legal advice once you get the court summons, and even then, it depends on how good the CPS lawyer on the day is, and how stroppy the magistrate is!

 

[detective-boy]

... it depends on how good the CPS lawyer on the day is, and how stroppy the magistrate is!

Do the CPS take on TfL cases? I thought TfL prosecuted their own with in-house lawyers or a retained firm (in which case the standard of prsecution would probably be far better than if it were the CPS).

 

[tube-trouble]

This is very good adviceand should be followed.

There are now several legal firms who specialise in these cases, seeing as how these cases are now a lot more common (deliberately decision on the part of TfL). You would be well advised to choose one of the ones who specialise, as they work out cheaper since they already know the background, so don't need to take so long to advise you.
QUOTE]

can you please give me contact details of such firms ASAP please ?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

You seem a bit clueless for someone who seems to earn shedloads of dosh...what's your secret, getting other people to do the work for you?

 

[Orang Utan]

Yes, I think this twerp should stop moaning and pay up.

 

[moomoo]

There would be arecord at the Court and, if anyone found out about it then it could be used like any other criminal conviction but, in practical terms, a "criminal record" in common parlance only exists in relation to the Police National Computer (PNC).

Entries on the PNC are only made when the proper forms are filled in, and (usually) where there are fingerprints, photographs, DNA, etc. taken. Although in theory entries CAN be made without those additional bits and pieces, I NEVER encountered it being done in twenty years. I ceratinly never came across any prosecution authority other than the police creating a record. It's possible that they did and I just never heard about it, but I suspect they simply don't bother.

I'm positive I was never fingerprinted or photographed! I just went to the magistrates court and paid my fine.

So I don't have a criminal record?

 

[Guineveretoo]

Do the CPS take on TfL cases? I thought TfL prosecuted their own with in-house lawyers or a retained firm (in which case the standard of prsecution would probably be far better than if it were the CPS).

It has become a bit of a training ground for CPS lawyers, I am afraid. Some of them seem to think they are on piece work!

 

[Guineveretoo]

can you please give me contact details of such firms ASAP please ?

Sorry, I don't have this information easily to hand - you will have to do your own research. Simplest way would be to go to the Law Society website and do a search on there and then phone some companies and ask. A lot of companies are simply not interested in this sort of work, since it doesn't pay a lot.

 

[Guineveretoo]

You seem a bit clueless for someone who seems to earn shedloads of dosh...what's your secret, getting other people to do the work for you?

Indeed!

 

[Guineveretoo]

I'm positive I was never fingerprinted or photographed! I just went to the magistrates court and paid my fine.

So I don't have a criminal record?

It's unlikely, but you may wish to check, just to be sure.

 

[moomoo]

It's unlikely, but you may wish to check, just to be sure.

How would I check?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Data protection Act maybe? Or an employers police check? I have an enhanced police check because I work with vulnerable children which would list even spent and minor convictions, and although I have a copy the agency I work for applied for it...
*waits again for D-B*

 

[DrRingDing]

4) I work for an investment bank and pay very heavy taxes... i have never ever done anything wrong in my life .

I think that is the very definition of an oxymoron.

 

[tube-trouble]

apologies if I have offended anyone, shall do my own research. My heartfelt thanks to all for their suggestions! I wont bother you all any more....

 

[Guineveretoo]

How would I check?

http://www.crb.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=417

 

[Guineveretoo]

apologies if I have offended anyone, shall do my own research. My heartfelt thanks to all for their suggestions! I wont bother you all any more....

It's not that you have offended anyone (at least, you haven't offended me), it's just that there is a bit of a sense of you delegating a bit too much!

The Law Society website contains a list of all solicitors with some information about the area of law they cover. You should be able to track down several names and numbers from there. If you have a go and can't find what you need, get back to me, and I will pass on some names.

 

[detective-boy]

How would I check?

Although the Criminal Records Bureau intend to provide the service at some point, they don't at the moment (they are still trying to get to grips with the checks required of people in high-risk jobs - e.g. teachers, etc.).

You have to apply to the local police force under the Data Protection Act. It will cost you £10. If you are in the Metropolitan Police area (the 32 London Boroughs) you can go to a police station for a form, or download one here.

http://www.met.police.uk/dataprotection/forms.htm

If you send it off you will get a prompt reply saying it will be processed (I know - I asked for a different thing and got one of their standard replies so it seems they are set up for criminal record / PNC checks!!) but the actual result will take longer (they have up to 40 days according to teh rules).

If you are in another police area, check their website for their similar process or call at a police station.

Your conviction, even if it was ever recorded, will be "spent" under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 if it is more than five years old (the period is defined by the sentence and a fine = 5 years). So, even if you ever had a proper criminal record, you won't have any more!

http://www.nacro.org.uk/data/resources/nacro-2005020106.pdf

"Spent" convictions always remain on the CRB database and have to be disclosed in high-risk job searches (the "previous convictions" question will always refer to having to disclose all conviction including spent ones if the exemption applie) but otherwise you do not have to disclose them and no-one can make any use of them.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Although the Criminal Records Bureau intend to provide the service at some point, they don't at the moment (they are still trying to get to grips with the checks required of people in high-risk jobs - e.g. teachers, etc.).

You have to apply to the local police force under the Data Protection Act. It will cost you £10. If you are in the Metropolitan Police area (the 32 London Boroughs) you can go to a police station for a form, or download one here.

http://www.met.police.uk/dataprotection/forms.htm

If you send it off you will get a prompt reply saying it will be processed (I know - I asked for a different thing and got one of their standard replies so it seems they are set up for criminal record / PNC checks!!) but the actual result will take longer (they have up to 40 days according to teh rules).

If you are in another police area, check their website for their similar process or call at a police station.

Your conviction, even if it was ever recorded, will be "spent" under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 if it is more than five years old (the period is defined by the sentence and a fine = 5 years). So, even if you ever had a proper criminal record, you won't have any more!

http://www.nacro.org.uk/data/resources/nacro-2005020106.pdf

"Spent" convictions always remain on the CRB database and have to be disclosed in high-risk job searches (the "previous convictions" question will always refer to having to disclose all conviction including spent ones if the exemption applie) but otherwise you do not have to disclose them and no-one can make any use of them.

Or write to the CRB at the address in the link I provided:

http://www.crb.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=417

 

[detective-boy]

Or write to the CRB at the address in the link I provided:

http://www.crb.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=417

But that won;t get any access to a criminal record (i.e. the PNC). It will ONLY get access held independently by the CRB (if any) which is not the same thing at all, as the link clearly states;

The CRB will only hold information about you if:

You have made an application for a CRB check; or
You are a Countersignatory with a Registered Body.

If you want to make a ‘subject access’ request for a copy of your police record you should visit your local police force where this request should be made.

 

[tube-trouble]

Dear friends,

I had been pestering you all for long enough now... But today my message is not with a question.. it is only and for only one thing, to thank you all..

Thanks for all your support and advice during this rough time...

Following your advise i met a lot of Lawyers, some of whom charges fees even for the first meeting.. but very soon i realised that none of them had actually represented a case before and all the talked was based on general knowledge... many declined to take tha case and some quoted heavy fees..

But then i met a really nice lawyer who told me that going to court with a lawyer is not going to help and rather go and talk to the prosecutor.. so I went and spoke to the prosecutor and such a nice man he is, god bless him, that he decided to drop the case on the ground that i had not started the journey and had waited in the queue before i went in... i ended up paying small admin cost but the case is dropped!...

and all of whom who had been down that line before, i have confirmed with the authorities that this offence DOES NOT go to your computer records...

Thanks ye all again once more and feel free to contact me if you need any help in future...