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Farage To Stay As UKIP Leader

sicko the bag also done a series of 'in defense of liberalism' not so long back so I'm never quite sure if he isn't just chatting shit intespersed with historical fact
 
There is no question which side of the EU referendum Farage will be on, but I wonder about other politicians, including conservative MPs .. who will be on which side?
 
DotCommunist said:
Thats the similar line I took from one of sick bags books- he reckoned that when they came to beg him back from self imposed isolation he thought they had come to arrest him
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He was still busy, held regular meetings or exchanged messages/info with army, state security and party officials. He was neither a complete mess nor coolly calculated in his actions when the Germans invaded. Under pressure, sure, but not completely fucked. The mess version of the Vozhd being a drunken wreck is from 1950s Soviet de-Stalinisation (with specific attacks and criticisms of his rule but not a complete rejection), Khrushchev repeating them in the 1960s when kicked out of the leadership and its acceptance by western historians.

Sickbag is good on some personal detail but shite on Marxism-Leninism.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
The resignation for the summer was purely to cover his arse after his bluff had been called by the voters of Thanet.
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According to Andrew Pierce, deputy dog at the DM, it was "tactical voting; lot's off it" that done for Nigel. Naive really to announce in advance his intention to resign if not successful as it was an added incentive for the establishment parties to put even more resources into the constituency. Pierce's emphasis also carried with it a rather heavy hint that the level of tactical voting he alluded to was more than just happenstance.
 
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Dogsauce said:
He looked pretty ill during the campaign. Maybe he needed the break, we can only hope.
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He was giving it, the happiest I've been for ages, what a relief etc, on Friday morning.

And really, why not. No MP duties, have a nice long holiday, come back and do fuck all except say UKIPy things, agitate for no vote in referendum, snipe from sidelines. Piece of piss.
 
Belushi said:
LOL :D
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its possible i suppose...

Carswell got little of the bile that Reckless (oh, the irony..) got when he went, from what i gather he was far better respected within the PCP than Reckless. if UKIP implode/become even more ridiculous, and Carswell effectively votes as the other Tories do - particularly if Cameron keeps the loons onside over the renegotiation/referendum - then it might happen.
 
Loved Ian Collins' description of Farage on LBC last night. Something along the lines of being resurrected like "Gandalf with a Woodbine"! :D
 
DotCommunist said:
ah. And here was me thinking we'd see for-the-good-of-the-party unity and the buker mentality

Niave of me
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what party? Falange is UKIP - the party, as opposed to the voters - this gangfuck just goes to show it even more. one of UKIP's deputy leaders(?), the one who lost in Shrewsbury, was being announced as the new (interim) leader on the local news last night, and it looks like Carswell, who is the only person in UKIP who can say 'i've won a seat', is distinctly unimpressed with this nonsense.

from what i can see Carswell is a pretty straight-up bloke - his politics are not my cup of tea - it wouldn't surprise me that much if he resigned from the party to become an independant if this kind of lunacy continues. going back to the tories is a whole other issue, but becoming 'semi-detached' in that famous phrase, or leaving altogether? i think the odds on those are pretty short.

gigglefest.
 
And people doubted me when I said UKIP could be gone by next election. May be wrong, I often am but the party is a joke fuelled by Garage's ego, foundations of sand.
 
YouSir said:
And people doubted me when I said UKIP could be gone by next election. May be wrong, I often am but the party is a joke fuelled by Garage's ego, foundations of sand.
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Why people doubt you:

4 million votes, the second party in over 100 seats, largest British party in Europe, EU referendum on the way, EU making clear free movement is key principle of membership, Labour looking to make clearer still (although I think they will struggle on this) that they are the party of 'aspiration' and identity - as long as its got nothing to do with class.

Why you might be right:

Carswell and Farage disagree about how many staff to employ using public money
 
Smokeandsteam said:
Why people doubt you:

4 million votes, the second party in over 100 seats, largest British party in Europe, EU referendum on the way, EU making clear free movement is key principle of membership, Labour looking to make clearer still (although I think they will struggle on this) that they are the party of 'aspiration' and identity - as long as its got nothing to do with class.

Why you might be right:

Carswell and Farage disagree about how many staff to employ using public money
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One MP and a fucked party structure beyond Farage. As I said, I don't think their support is going to evaporate but the party itself? A house of cards, one good shove and it'll collapse. Looks like Carswell may be willing to give it a push too. Plus post referendum - and probably staying in the EU - I don't know what they'll have left to say. Can't see them being quick enough to reposition themselves on solid ground. Where all their voters will go through who knows. Certainly not Labour at this point.
 
YouSir said:
One MP and a fucked party structure beyond Farage. As I said, I don't think their support is going to evaporate but the party itself? A house of cards, one good shove and it'll collapse. Looks like Carswell may be willing to give it a push too. Plus post referendum - and probably staying in the EU - I don't know what they'll have left to say. Can't see them being quick enough to reposition themselves on solid ground. Where all their voters will go through who knows. Certainly not Labour at this point.
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I honestly don't know enough about them, but don't they also (laughably) position themselves as the anti-Westminster, anti-establishment party? They could still stick to that and claim to represent the common man on the street, couldn't they?

Plus, even if we stay in the EU I doubt they'll not still have support for that issue too.
 
YouSir said:
And people doubted me when I said UKIP could be gone by next election. May be wrong, I often am but the party is a joke fuelled by Garage's ego, foundations of sand.
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We'll see, if the current system remains I can see them as eventually replacing the Lib Dems as the tactical vote of choice party but it'll take at least a couple of elections for that to happen and for them to be less of a one issue party.
 
YouSir said:
One MP and a fucked party structure beyond Farage. As I said, I don't think their support is going to evaporate but the party itself? A house of cards, one good shove and it'll collapse. Looks like Carswell may be willing to give it a push too. Plus post referendum - and probably staying in the EU - I don't know what they'll have left to say. Can't see them being quick enough to reposition themselves on solid ground. Where all their voters will go through who knows. Certainly not Labour at this point.
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They are not unique in having a fucked party structure but I agree that Farage is a pivotal figure for them.

And as for the idea that losing a referendum ends a debate, or kills the losing side - have a look at Scotland. Outside of that, what issues driving UKIP support are likely to go away or become less important or be appropriated by other parties?
 
Lord Camomile said:
I honestly don't know enough about them, but don't they also (laughably) position themselves as the anti-Westminster, anti-establishment party? They could still stick to that and claim to represent the common man on the street, couldn't they?

Plus, even if we stay in the EU I doubt they'll not still have support for that issue too.
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Farage does but again, that's him rather than anyone/anything I've seen from the wider party. Almost reminds me of Galloway, the party is on the back of the ego. Any internal ructions can only end with him winning and/or people leaving, depth isn't there to replace him.
 
Andrew Hertford said:
How many more lies does Farage think he can get away with? The number of East Europeans who were going to 'flood' into Britain at the beginning of last year, the net cost of membership of the EU, the number of Uk laws 'passed in Brussels' and now this.

Next he'll be denying that he ever said “we will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us.”
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While there's political space for Farage to manoeuvre, he'll continue to deploy his lies, just like the heads of all parties do, to pander to membership prejudices. Also, given his political positioning, he doesn't have to fear the majority of the mainstream media going after him for lying as he's projecting views that "the powers that be" want projected. Looking for him to be pulled up for any of that is probably futile. He could get caught strangling a goat, and would walk away from it as long as he claimed the goat was foreign. The man is a shit and an arse, but he's floating with the prevailing political tide, and he knows it.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
They are not unique in having a fucked party structure but I agree that Farage is a pivotal figure for them.

And as for the idea that losing a referendum ends a debate, or kills the losing side - have a look at Scotland. Outside of that, what issues driving UKIP support are likely to go away or become less important or be appropriated by other parties?
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As I said, I don't think the issues or support base are going, I just think UKIP might now Farage hasn't won a seat and even more so with Carswell getting arsey. One small internal fracture and they could topple. Other parties may be fucked but no one thinks Labour or Tories would disappear through minor internal dissent, even the Lin Dems seem solid at the moment. UKIP is on a different level of fragility. No idea where their voters would go though, to a spin off group, back to established parties, into apathy.

All speculation though, I'm nowhere near expert enough to do any more.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
They are not unique in having a fucked party structure but I agree that Farage is a pivotal figure for them.

And as for the idea that losing a referendum ends a debate, or kills the losing side - have a look at Scotland. Outside of that, what issues driving UKIP support are likely to go away or become less important or be appropriated by other parties?
Click to expand...

As I said, I don't think the issues or support base are going, I just think UKIP might now Farage hasn't won a seat and even more so with Carswell getting arsey. One small internal fracture and they could topple. Other parties may be fucked but no one thinks Labour or Tories would disappear through minor internal dissent, even the Lin Dems seem solid at the moment. UKIP is on a different level of fragility. No idea where their voters would go though, to a spin off group, back to established parties, into apathy.

All speculation though, I'm nowhere near expert enough to do any more.
 
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