Discussion in 'general sports' started by 1%er, Nov 28, 2018.
Go on Lando
Well that is one way to ensure driver stay within track limits
it will break your car
So due to the performance of the car this weekend
Can we say the exploit the red car were using has been exposed
getting smoked by a honda powered red bull
That track is fucked.
OM and Fucking G.
Get in there Lewis 6 times World Champion!!!!
Well done Lewis.
i do hope bottas uses this as a reason to fight lewis next year
fair play to lewis
one of the goats..
danny wishing lewis well pure class
whilst i must admit i'm not a lewis fan
he does not get the support he deserves
he is the British champion vs the runners up
Hollywood celeb: Lewis is a six-times world champion; my part in his success.
OK guys catch you in 2 weeks for the Brazilian GP
Greatest of all time. No debate now in my mind.
I realise it's nothing to do with F1 2019 but you might find this interesting.
Gordon Murray One Formula
A virtual tour of Gordon Murray's motor racing past.
Ferrari/Red Bull legal action
Max opened his mouth again, this time after the USGP. What he said hasn't please Ferrari (our many others) and Mattia Binotto came out of his calm shell and didn't hold back when confronting Christian Horner. What happened according to a number of press reports from reporters who claim to have witnessed events is this; After te race Verstappen was asked "what do you put the drop in performance of the 2 Ferrari's down too", his reply was was very direct he answered “that's what happens when you stop cheating”. Has he jumped the gun as there is currently no firm evidence that Ferrari have cheated.
According to reporters Mattia Binotto confronted Christian Horner after the US GP and threatened him with legal action, photographic evidence emerging in the wake of the Austin race appear to back up the claims about the Ferrari chief’s fury. The normally calm Binotto was enraged after Austin when Red Bull-Honda driver Max Verstappen said Ferrari had been caught “cheating” with its engine.
“I was standing outside the Red Bull hospitality, when (Red Bull boss) Horner had finished with English journalists, Mattia began an exchange of clear and blunt views. He spoke firmly to Horner and what I managed to hear was a warning about legal action. Horner explained that he (Verstappen) only shared an opinion, and Mattia replied in a strict tone. From what I saw, it is clear that Binotto is far from being the good natured boss that many think he is,” Lopez added (Lopez is a Spanish F1 correspondent).
Personally I think judging something like this from just race is a bit harsh, Vettel's car broke and Leclerc was running an old power-unit, I'll reserve judgement until after the Brazilian GP and if Ferrari are not back to being well in front on straight line speed, I'll be siding with Max
That Hamilton and Verstappen beef
Much like the Oasis/Blur beef hyped in the press all those years ago, one has to wonder if the Hamilton/Verstappen beef is manufactured, well it isn't according to press reports. Lewis has revealed he squashed any tension between himself and Max Verstappen before the United States Grand Prix. The Brit also spoke about Verstappen's potential and he feels he is a champion of the future. There looked to be some growing tension between the pair after their opening lap coming together at the Mexican Grand Prix. Hamilton would go on to win that race and he sealed his sixth World Championship at the US Grand Prix a week later.
Lewis has revealed he wanted to squash any growing tension between them, before they took to the COTA circuit and said that he is a champion of the future. "I spoke to Max even before the race and I was like, 'Dude you're such a great racer, man. Let's just squash whatever there is between us because it's just fake, it's nothing. Whatever beef [there is] let's just get rid of it. Let's go out there and have a great race'". He went on to tell the press "He's a champion of the future and I'm going to work as hard as I can to stop that happening for a while, but I'm enjoying racing with him."
It did strike me as interesting timing. Binotto said publicly there was nothing hookey about Ferrari's fuel and oil systems, and that he welcomed any FIA inspection. A week later, performance fell off a cliff.
Toto said the speed traces from the USA GP showed clearly a fall in performance. Binotto said it was down to downforce changes and Leclonk's older replacement engine. We shall see.
Bring on Brazil, I say.
Honda's opinion on Ferrari
Honda has also noticed the lower Ferrari speed on the straights compared to his own engine in the USA, but technical director Toyoharu Tanabe does not go as far as his driver Max Verstappen, who accused Ferrari of cheating after the race. He wants to wait for more races to get a clear picture. Ferrari followed the lead in the Austin race: Charles Leclerc was more than 50 seconds behind at the finish. The Scuderia explains this with an engine of an older specification and high running time as well as a set-up experiment that reduced the top speed.
However, rivals believe that it is related to an FIA technical directive that prevents a Ferrari trick on the fuel flow meter. Red Bull had asked the federation to clarify the legality and received a negative response in three scenarios, whereupon the FIA sent the directive. But Honda technical director Toyoharu Tanabe, unlike Verstappen, doesn’t want to take just one race as a reference: “We need the data from Brazil and Abu Dhabi,” he says “Then we’ll find out something. We can’t say anything about this one race.”
Tanabe only states: Ferrari’s package “was different”. For where the reasons for Ferrari’s speed disadvantage lie, he can only speculate: “We can’t separate air resistance from engine performance,” he says. “The gap between Ferrari and us in terms of speed is smaller than in the previous races. That’s clear. But we don’t know whether it’s just the engine or the chassis, their race space was not as strong as in previous races. That means their package was different or didn’t fit the track,” Tanabe says. “I don’t know. But we see the difference in the top speeds.”
Ferrari was only in eighth and ninth place in the top speeds during qualifying, and only 13th and 16th in the race. In Mexico they were still leading the field with a lead of almost five km/h advantage in qualifying.
When is a budget cap not a budget cap
Over the years the sport has sought without success to curb spending by means of introducing a spending cap, almost breaking apart when Max Mosley attempted to make such a move. However, despite the assurances from Chase, Ross and Jean, one has to wonder if the proposed cap will actually make any difference.
As ever, the devil is in the detail. As we are all aware, the budget cap is $175m (£135.8m) and will be strictly enforced, with Ross Brawn insisting that teams that try to beat the system will face draconian punishment, we're talking exclusion from the championship seemingly. While it has previously been revealed that certain costs will be excluded from the $175m, it is only when one looks in more detail that doubts arise.
According to the financial regulations released today, the following are exempt:
Engine development and production
Driver pay, travel and accommodation costs (including test and development drivers)
Pay, travel and accommodation costs for the three highest paid employees
Employee bonuses up to the lower of 20% of total remuneration or $10m (£7.8m)
Flight and hotel costs for competition or testing
World championship entry fees
Super license fees
Fees paid to the Commercial Rights Holder or the FIA upon signing an agreement to participate in the championship
Development of alternative fuel or oil for use in the Power Unit
Financial penalties for breaching the Financial Regulations
Depreciation, amortisation, impairment loss, and costs arising from the revaluation or disposal of assets
Foreign exchange gains and losses
Social security costs which exceed 15% of the total remuneration
Employee termination costs during the transition period
Currently, the average annual spend of the ten F1 teams is $312m (£242m), according to Formula Money, and while some spend considerably more, others spend considerably less. The $175m cap is a 43.9% reduction on that current average. The single biggest cost across the whole of the sport is the power unit, with the four engine manufacturers thought to be spending $980m (£761m) in total each year. However, the teams, even the likes of Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari which build their own engines only have to declare a maximum of $16.7m (£12.9m) a year.
According to Forbes, the teams are currently spending around $1.8bn (£1.4bn) on those areas that are exempt under the cap, which is around 58% of their costs. In other words, the unlimited areas of spending exceed the limited areas. In 2009, in a bid to end the spending war, the teams, under the guise of the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA), came up with the Resource Restriction Agreement (RRA). Amongst themselves, and not part of the governing body's official regulations, the teams agreed to a sweeping number of changes that would place strict limits on various aspects of the sport, amongst other things limiting budgets, staffing and resources.
However, it wasn't long before the finger of suspicion was being pointed, with Red Bull accused of breaking the agreement by going over its budget, a claim Christian Horner vehemently denied. In 2016, Ferrari chairman, Sergio Marchionne said that "the interventions there have been up to now, from limitations on the cost of supplying power units to the reduction of wind-tunnel hours, have been totally ineffective. This is the old problem for all those who try and impose limits on car development," he admitted, "if areas are left open, spending concentrates in this area. If I look at the last four of five years, we haven't saved a euro. We have simply redistributed our spending to other areas. In principle it's very noble, but then the effect never gives the necessary results. When I look at old reports of what we have spent in the last ten years, and even further back, I deduce that Ferrari has never held back when it comes to spending," he concluded.
While the RRA was self-policed, the 2021 budget cap will be overseen by the FIA, and the legislation released on Friday reveals that, among other thangs, its can enter teams offices and grant immunity to whistle-blowers. While, speaking today at the presentation, Jean Todt was clearly enthusiastic, however this wasn't the case as recently as July, when he admitted that "only three teams will be affected or will have to restrict themselves" as a result of the cap. "It would be better to have a limit that gives all the teams the same chance, but that was not possible," he added.
Indeed, looking just that little bit harder, despite all the smiles and claims that the rules have been "unanimously agreed", the official F1 website reveals that "the 2021 rules are a watershed for Formula 1 but they are still a work in progress", while the FIA's website refers to the agreed terms as being a "framework". If this all sounds a little up in the air, let's not forget that, as yet, not one of the teams has signed up to race beyond 2020 when their current contracts end, with F1's latest annual report, which was released at the end of February, admitting that "Formula 1 cannot provide assurance that any of the Teams will commit to participate in the World Championship beyond 2020."
Speaking in Austin, it was clear that there remains some way to go. "We just voted the new set of regulations but the entire Concorde Agreement needs to be discussed and agreed and signed," admitted Mattia Binotto, "that's on the commercial button, the governance as well. Working group have been set, to start discussing the details of the documents," he added. "I think it's only after having seen the details that we may assess where we are and what's required."
"I don't expect any major renegotiations of Concorde terms, what's been proposed, because that's something also that's part of the discussion of the whole package," saids Cyril Abiteboul, "even though it's not been signed up so anyone is free to sign or not to sign but clearly I expect that the details of the drafting of the document to take much longer - we all know that when one lawyer gets involved so at least we have twelve lawyers. So that's going to take a bit of time probably to get a grid."
Between them the teams receive 68% of the sport's underlying profits, which came to $913m last year, and each of them spends every single penny they receive in their quest for success. It is the core spend, spend, spend mentality of the teams that is the issue, and it has nothing to do with the size of their budgets. Until this is addressed there will continue to be the haves and have nots, and courtesy of the exemptions, note that financial penalties for breaching the financial regulations are themselves exempt from the budget cap, what they cannot spend here they will simply spend there, and in time we are likely to see more teams go under as such an attitude is simply not sustainable.
Essentially, what was presented today was RRA2, albeit to be policed by the FIA.
Renault quit rumor
According to a number of press reports Renault may quit F1 at the end of the season. With Renault having recently changed CEO's, changing to the government-appointed Clotilde Delbos, Renault's F1 program could be shut down after this season to cut costs within the company. The French government now have a 15% stake in Renault, with Delbos being personally appointed by French prime minister Emmanuel Macron. She is known to be heavily against the existence of the F1 program.
It would be an incredibly strong change of direction for the French works team, who have already announced their 2020 line-up in Daniel Ricciardo and Esteban Ocon. Team principal Cyril Abiteboul also said he could see the team challenging for wins with the post-2021 regulations, which would imply they would still be on the grid to compete, obviously. Delbos was only appointed a few weeks ago, however, which could mean she could simply take the executive decision to pull the plug on the entire F1 program, which is based in Enstone in the United Kingdom.
Zandvoort moving forward
Jan Lammers says he is “proud” that Dutch GP organisers have so far fended off strong environmental opposition to next year’s Zandvoort race. The former F1 driver is the spokesman of the Zandvoort organisers, who have managed to repel the legal and bureaucratic hurdles put in their path so far by environmental groups. “The director and his team have worked extremely hard and I am proud that the judge agreed that Zandvoort carried out its work carefully,” Lammers told reporters.
He said the environmental groups were not open to the idea of compromise. “The opponents we are dealing with are opposed in principle,” said Lammers. “Whether something is real or not, they don’t care. They’re simply against everything you say. If they come up with real ideas, then we listen to them with full attention and take something from it”. In fact, Lammers said it is wrong to characterise the Dutch GP organisers as being at war with the environment. “We are actually on the same side as the environmental organisers that we have been confronted with in court,” he said. “The Dutch GP will become the most sustainable race on the Formula 1 calendar”.
Red Bull to ramp up spend in 2020
Red Bull thinks that next year will be its most expensive ever in Formula 1, with its costs set to ramp up because of the huge development needed for 2021's new rules. With F1's budget cap not coming into force just yet, the big money teams are well aware that there are gains to be had if they invest more next year to get a head start on cars for grand prix racing's new era.While F1's chiefs have said they believe that wind tunnel and CFD restrictions will limit scope for spending in 2020, Red Bull boss Christian Horner thinks there are still enough areas of freedom to mean that it is worth investing more.
"You have an unrestricted and uncontrolled amount of money that you can spend on research and development across other areas," said Horner. "For me, I stand by what I said previously. It would have been better to have introduced the cap first and then the regulations a year down the line, because then the budget cap would have constrained the amount of spend. Next year looks to be our most expensive ever year in F1".
Horner said Red Bull had already got personnel devoted to working on the 2021 regulations, and faced the prospect of needing two separate groups focusing on cars next year. "Now the 2021 regulations are clear, we have an advanced team starting to investigate those regulations," he said. "It makes it an incredibly expensive year because we are developing under two types of regs and before the new financial cap comes in as well. So 2020 will be an expensive and busy year, certainly off track and on track".
But it is not just the top three contenders that are expecting costs to shoot up next year, with Renault also admitting that it will need to throw more money at its efforts if it is to make the most of the opportunities that 2021 offer. Renault F1 team boss Cyril Abiteboul said that teams in his situation may be forced to switch off their 2020 work early because the following year is so important. "We can argue that all teams face the same situation but there are some teams, and I am not going to name any in particular, that are happy with where they are and do not have the ambition that we have so 2021," he told reporters.
"It is not a particular point on their agenda, whereas it is for us. We will have to invest much more than some of the teams we are directly competing against today, so that will be a challenge. We will also have to be sensible with what we put into 2020, but is Racing Point really interested in 2021? Yes, they will be racing in 2021 but do they expect that 2021 is going to make a big difference for them? I am not sure. And that is where our strategy, because of the ambition, because of the objectives, differ. It can have an impact on track in the very short term future and that is a challenge that we have to accept and we have to face".
What's the betting it'll be blamed on Brexit
Instead of pulling out of F1, Renault should ditch Cyril Irritable and bring in someone who can work with others in a more productive manner.
Messing whit Fuel flow meters is "foul play" says Wolff
Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff says if any team had breached the FIA’s fuel flow regulations that would have been “foul play”. With rivals questioning Ferrari’s power unit, the FIA issued a Technical Directive ahead of the United States Grand Prix that outlined the rules relating to fuel flow. The FIA’s head of single-seater technical matters Nikolas Tombazis highlighted Article 5.10.5 which states that “any device, system or procedure the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel after the measurement point is prohibited.”
The TD was followed by a drop-off in pace by Ferrari only throwing fuel on the fire as to whether they were operating outside the rules. Team boss Mattia Binotto has insisted they weren’t, reportedly even going as far as to threatening legal action after Max Verstappen blatantly accused them of “cheating”.
However, Wolff says it would have amounted to cheating if any team had been found playing around with the fuel flow. “If somebody was doing what the technical directive clarified, it would have been foul play and the way the technical directive was formulated it was a severe breach of regulations, so there is not even any talk about any grey areas.” he told reporters.
That’s a sentiment echoed by Red Bull’s Christian Horner. “The TD was very clear,” he said. “I think that is not to say that anybody was doing anything, but if they were it would obviously be illegal. The power unit is an incredibly complex piece of machinery both from a hardware and software perspective, and the clarifications that we have requested were standard stuff that goes backwards and forwards continually between the teams and the FIA. So it is always good to get clarity before wasting effort”.
Could two teams leave F1 in 2021
Team owner Gene Haas has “doubts” about the American team’s future in Formula 1. That is the admission of team boss Gunther Steiner, who says he had to discuss the team’s more-than-difficult 2019 season with owner Gene Haas in Austin. “The biggest problem he has is with our performance,
Who is impressed with the state of F1 if you don’t make money out of it? It’s a big investment” Steiner told reporters
At present, with the controversial 2021 rules having been handed down, the ten teams are having to think about signing a new Concorde Agreement, binding them to the sport beyond 2020. When asked about Gene Haas’ deliberations, Steiner said: “He’s just like every good businessman. He has to rethink what to do, but he is not negative about it. For sure he has doubts like everybody else and it’s something new, but it’s normal business”.
Following reports in the press last week, Renault has played down rumors it might quit Formula 1. Last week, reports suggested that amid on and off-track scandals, poor results and the loss of engine customers Red Bull and McLaren, new Renault CEO Clotilde Delbos might be poised to pull the carmaker out of F1. But a Renault spokesperson told reporters that the rumors were put out there to “destabilise” the team.
The spokesperson added that “projects” for the development of the car for 2020 are “still underway at Viry Chatillon and Enstone”. Meanwhile, team boss Cyril Abiteboul said Renault is more than happy with its top driver Daniel Ricciardo, who was wooed from Red Bull for 2019 and 2020. We can feel the great responsibility he has taken on, he is doing more and more not only with the car, but also for the team”.
Well, the penultimate race of the season approaches. As always, Brazil is at a pretty civilised time for Europeans and, unsurprisingly, Brazil residents.
Assuming Sky aren't setting their clocks to Polynesian Double-Winter Time (again) , the UK times are:
Fri 15 Nov
FP1 - 14:00
FP2 - 18:00
Sat 16 Nov
FP3 - 15:00
Qual - 18:00
Sun 17 Nov
Race - 17:10
Caipirinhas all round!
Early dinner on Sunday then. Can’t believe how quickly this season has flown by, and despite the modern fashion for criticising F1, I really think we’ve seen some awesome races. Let’s hope these new rules in 2021 don’t wreck it.
Red Bull and Toro Rosso Keep driver line-up
Red Bull has named Alexander Albon as its second driver for the 2020 F1 season alongside Max Verstappen. Albon was promoted to the team after the summer break in place of Pierre Gasly, who failed to impress after making his debut for them at the beginning of the season. Red Bull has now rewarded Albon with a full-time seat at the team next year.
“Alex has performed extremely well since his debut with the team in Belgium and his results, seven finishes in the top-six, speak for themselves, it’s extremely hard to deny that level of consistency and in tandem with a growing reputation as a tenacious, fiercely committed racer, Alex has proved that he fully deserves to continue his progress with Aston Martin Red Bull Racing. There is plenty of potential still to unlock and we look forward to seeing Alex alongside Max in 2020” said team principal Christian Horner.
Toro Rosso has confirmed that Pierre Gasly and Daniil Kvyat will be continuing with the team in 2020. According to the Faenza-based outfit, both drivers have proven their capabilities throughout the 2019 season, with Kvyat scoring the team's second podium in its history at the German Grand Prix, and Gasly's strong performances beginning immediately upon his return to Toro Rosso.
"We are excited to hit the ground running in 2020 with our strong pairing, which will play an important role in our target to move further up the grid. read the official announcement. I'm delighted to retain Pierre and Daniil for next season," said Franz Tost. "Both drivers have shown really good performances this season and they have proven in their years in F1 to be very competitive, able to exploit the car's potential and give valuable feedback to make improvements. This young but experienced duo, combined with hopefully a competitive car, will be the best factors to achieve a very successful season in 2020 and I'm looking forward to this extended cooperation".
Could Leclerc run an experimental engine in Brazil
It is said that due to the Ferrari’s Charles Leclerc’s lack of available engines for the remainder of the season, the Scuderia are seriously considering fitting the young F1 driver with an experimental Power Unit based on the 2020 architecture. With the 2019 season done and dusted with Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton wrapping up the Championships, for Ferrari there’s very little to lose by trying out the newer engine from Ferrari earmarked for next season.
With only the fight for 3rd place in the drivers Championship to play for, it is said that Ferrari Boss Mattia Binotto is seriously considering this move in order to get some much needed data with the severely restricted winter testing regime in place. Last Grand Prix in Austin, Texas, Charles Leclerc suffered an oil leak preventing any real participation in third practice. Further, the Monegasque driver then had to make do with older 2nd evolution power unit for both qualifying and the race itself, meaning the mileage is too high now to be relied on for Brazil.
The only engine that’s available for Leclerc is the repaired one from Austin, but its’ unclear if it suffered heat damage from the oil leak, therefore not reliable for use during the Brazillian weekend. So naturally if another new 3rd evolution power unit must be taken, thus incurring grid penalties, the opportunity is right for testing out 2020 components, and perhaps even the entire power unit.
According to Franco Nugnes from the Italian motorsport.com this is currently being discussed intensively between engine boss Wolf Zimmermann and team boss Mattia Binotto. Interlagos requires a high proportion of full throttle, and the altitude is around 800 meters which will put a high load on the engine, not as extreme as in Mexico City, but nevertheless, a good testing situation.
SMP racing didn't pay Williams in full for sponsorship
SMP Racing did not pay in full for its sponsorship of the struggling backmarker Williams in 2018. That is the claim of a Russian source at Moscow-based Echo Moskwa radio. Last year, Russian Sergey Sirotkin raced for Williams with backing by SMP Bank’s motorsport programme SMP Racing. “They paid only part of the amount,” the source, Marina Maksimowa, told Sportowe Fakty. Williams is still struggling with its financial backing in 2019. Robert Kubica’s sponsor PKN Orlen has been publicly critical of the team and is set to leave along with the Polish driver.
As for SMP Racing, the Russian source continued: “They decided that Williams’ results were unsatisfactory and that they should not receive any more money”. The sponsor’s dissatisfaction is apparently why Sirotkin left Williams at the end of the season. “Sirotkin wanted to continue, even with Williams,” Maksimowa said. “But they (SMP Racing) told him that there would be no more money”.
If true, this could come back to haunt SMP racing as they are rumored to be trying to put together a team to join F1 in 2021. If they still owe money to Williams the team could object to them joining as a franchisee.
Excellent news for Albon.
Albon alongside Norris have been excellent
Rusell has done well in the Williams all things considered. Looking good for British drivers. I class albon as being pretty much British.
Ferrari's Charles Leclerc faces 10-place grid penalty for new engine
Is it because they’ve switched him to one which runs on petrol?
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