F1 2005 Season Thread

[g force]

God damn I just realied there's no F1 thread yet and it's the Melbourne GP on Sunday

So, quick recap on what's happened in the closed season. Well, the usual - fights between teams and Bernie/Mad Max on who controls what and who gets money. Ferrari have already signed an agreement guarnateeign themselves $67m every season, but in so doing have angered Toyota and Honda who have joined Daimler, BMW and Renault in the GPWC. Seems like that one will run and run.

New regs on aerodynamics and egnies lasting for two races have come into force but not really slowed the cars that dramatically. Minardi may not even make the first GP because they don't have the cash to make the changes. And in the middle of it all we've got a new (old) team - Red Bull F1 who will have everyone's favourite loser DC and Klien driving form them. Klien is in the seat on a race-by-race basis with F3000 champ Luizzi ready to take his seat - give him 3 GPs and I reckon he'll be in.

Jordan have a new management team having been bought out and also have Toyota engines for this season. They also have 2 very promising drivers in Monteiro and the first Indian GP driver Karthikeyan.

Oh yes and there's a new GP in Turkey at yet another Tilke-designed snoreadrome.

So...who do people think will do well?

I think Ferrari might have scrap on their hands. Renault and McLaren both look like they'll be contenders for GP wins from the off.

Prediction - MS to be WDC from Raikkonen and Alonso. Renault to be constructers champions, from Ferrari, McLaren and BAR.

WDC: MS
WCC: Renault
Most GP wins: MS
Most poles: Montoya and MS
Most fast laps: Raikonnen
Most accidents: Sato
Biggest losers: Williams, Toyota

 

[tom k&e]

Prediction - MS to be WDC from Raikkonen and Alonso. Renault to be constructers champions, from Ferrari, McLaren and BAR.

WDC: MS
WCC: Renault
Most GP wins: MS
Most poles: Montoya and MS
Most fast laps: Raikonnen
Most accidents: Sato
Biggest losers: Williams, Toyota

This dosen't make much sense. I really can't see Schumacher winning, if Ferrari have such a bad car they lose the WCC.

 

[g force]

I don't agree, the Ferrari is the best race car - bearing in mind an engine has to last 2 races and lack of Ferrari engines that have exploded over the last 4 years compared to BMW, Honda and Mercedes.

Problem is that Renault and Mclaren have 2 very strong drivers, so I can see them challenging in the constructers championship, because Ferrari will support MS, but Rubens will not score enough points.

 

[denialworks4me]

GO HONDA! Although it will be interesting to see if Sato can hold his engine for two races....

 

[g force]

Short answer: testing would seem to indicate a big "no".

He's so quick when the car's working but I think he might struggle - BAR surprised everyone last season, but Renault are on the up, Sauber look pretty good, Williams have something to prove.

I'd love to see a Toyota-powered Jordan beat Ralf. I think Trulli might score a podium this season - probably not unitl Japan though!

 

[Joyceboy]

It seems to me that Schumacher could win it driving a go-kart whilst towing a caravan....

 

[denialworks4me]

Short answer: testing would seem to indicate a big "no".

He's so quick when the car's working but I think he might struggle - BAR surprised everyone last season, but Renault are on the up, Sauber look pretty good, Williams have something to prove.

I'd love to see a Toyota-powered Jordan beat Ralf. I think Trulli might score a podium this season - probably not unitl Japan though!

Yes testing ......we'll wait for the actual race with the refined car....

 

[wordie]

Well I reckon McLaren will come through on both championships.

I reckon it'll be a battle between Renault and Ferrari for 2nd in the WCC.

I reckon Williams will struggle, but Heidfeld will give Webber a seriously hard time.

I reckon Toyota will lose it big time, with both Slowmaker and Trulli chucking their toys before Europe.

Jenson will be struggling as well, but a consistent third/fourth when others blow their motors.

Oh, and Massa will leave JV in the dust.

And just to round things off, I reckon Minardi will be refused permission by Ferrari to race in Melbourne and consequently a disgruntled Aussie fan will throw a full tinny (or two) at the red cars during the race, causing serious mayhem.

What happened to the "sport" part of racing?

 

[Pilgrim]

What happened to the "sport" part of racing?

It has largely died out in F1.

If you want a race experience that is cheaper, freer, more fun, more sporting and run with the fans in mind, then I can suggest to you that you get over to France in June for the Le Mans 24 Hours.

Roll on June!

And Go Aston Martin!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Lemons is always good fun but it's a different kettle of fish to F1 and always has been ...

Has no one mentioned that the british gp isn' going to be championship racing this year... or is it now... i forget...

 

[g force]

Yep it's a championship race for the next 5 years. There's a non-championship race scheduled for Brands Hatch I think, but that seems to have gone very quiet.

 

[red rose]

Looking very forward to this. I don't think that anyone will give ferrari too much of a challenge but things will be closer at the top. All the changes going on really piss me off. Its got to be the most scripted and controlled sport next to wwe wrestling.

Fingers crossed for an interesting title race

 

[squirmy]

schumacher to win again.

no more then 25 overtakings in the whole season excluding lapping.

wont be too bothered if i miss any races, but i wont but too much of a dampener on the thread

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Looking very forward to this. I don't think that anyone will give ferrari too much of a challenge but things will be closer at the top. All the changes going on really piss me off. Its got to be the most scripted and controlled sport next to wwe wrestling.

Fingers crossed for an interesting title race

the thing is that the easiest rule change they could make to make the sport intresting would be to just abandon fuel stops... if the only thing you could come in for was tyres and the car had to last the whole race it'd make for exciting racing again, rather than the processon which goes on now. Cars would have to be set up for the middle of the race so at the begining the car would be heavy and sluggish and by the end the car would be light and skitish it would also mean an end to the blistering lap after lap of new track record times if you had to save your fuel til the end or risk running out...

Meaning that overtaking would become a necessity again challenges would have to be factored in to runnign your car and it'd save costs in having to produce cars which have to accept refueling...

 

[g force]

The easist thing would be to drop the $48m bond for entry so more teams coudl enter, share the money more equally and stop changing the rules every 8 months - it's cost more money this closed season that any other to implement Mad Max's "cost-saving" ideas.

 

[ch750536]

Anyone know a good FREE fantasy F1 site? Just tried 3 and they make you pay.

 

[g force]

Interesting times from the first 2 sessions - Luizzi showing good form already on a track he's never seen before! Shame he span in the 2nd session. Minardi have been DQ's by the stewards but are launching an appeal.

Positions after first practice:

1 Vitantonio Liuzzi (Ita) Red Bull 1min 25.967secs
2 Pedro de la Rosa (Spa) McLaren + 0.513secs
3 Ricardo Zonta (Bra) Toyota + 1.298
4 Juan Pablo Montoya (Col) McLaren + 1.458
5 David Coulthard (GB) Red Bull + 1.606
6 Felipe Massa (Bra) Sauber + 2.004
7 Mark Webber (Aus) Williams + 2.302
8 Jarno Trulli (Ita) Toyota + 2.399
9 Jenson Button (GB) BAR + 2.665
10 Christian Klien (Aut) Red Bull + 2.867
11 Nick Heidfeld (Ger) Williams + 3.205
12 Rubens Barrichello (Bra) Ferrari + 3.260
13 Ralf Schumacher (Ger) Toyota + 3.318
14 Jacques Villeneuve (Can) Sauber + 3.365
15 Robert Doornbos (Bel) Jordan + 3.403
16 Takuma Sato (Jpn) BAR + 5.397
17 Tiago Monteiro (Por) Jordan + 6.381
18 Narain Karthikeyan (Ind) Jordan + 12.208
19 Kimi Raikkonen (Fin) McLaren no time
20 Michael Schumacher (Ger) Ferrari no time
21 Giancarlo Fisichella (Ita) Renault no time
22 Fernando Alonso (Spa) Renault no time
23 Patrick Freisacher (Aut) Minardi no time
24 Christijan Albers (Hol) Minardi no time

Positions after second practice:

1 Pedro de la Rosa (Spa) McLaren-Mercedes 1:25.376
2 Kimi Raikkonen (Fin) McLaren-Mercedes 1:25.676
3 Nick Heidfeld (Ger) Williams-BMW 1:25.940
4 Michael Schumacher (Ger) Ferrari 1:26.081
5 Juan Pablo Montoya (Col) McLaren-Mercedes 1:26.227
6 Felipe Massa (Bra) Sauber-Petronas 1:26.357
7 Fernando Alonso (Spa) Renault 1:26.562
8 Jenson Button (GB) BAR-Honda 1:26.611
9 Rubens Barrichello (Bra) Ferrari 1:26.639
10 Giancarlo Fisichella (Ita) Renault 1:26.667
11 Ricardo Zonta (Bra) Toyota 1:26.808
12 David Coulthard (GB) Red Bull Racing 1:27.017
13 Ralf Schumacher (Ger) Toyota 1:27.162
14 Jarno Trulli (Ita) Williams-BMW 1:27.195
15 Mark Webber (Aus) Williams-BMW 1:27.329
16 Jacques Villeneuve (Can) Sauber Petronas 1:27.513
17 Christian Klien (Aut) Red Bull Racing 1:27.544
18 Takuma Sato (Jpn) BAR-Honda 1:27.891
19 Narain Karthikeyan (Ind) Jordan 1:28.168
20 Robert Doornbos (Mon) Jordan 1:28.620
21 Vitantonio Liuzzi (Ita) Red Bull Racing 1:28.926
22 Tiago Monteiro (Por) Jordan 1:29.67123
23 Patrick Freisacher (Aut) Minardi no time
24 Christijan Albers (Hol) Minardi no time

 

[wordie]

Blimey, Webbo 2 secs off Nicks time!

Schumacher's not too far away from the front!

The BAR's are well split up.

And I see Jarno's driving a Williams in that 2nd session!

The McLarens seem to be performing well.

 

[g force]

Hadn't soppted the Trulli mistake!

Well, this is Webber's home GP, according to himself he's as good as MS - time to let the driving do the talking! Biggest surpirse was the general pace of Red Bull with essentially last year's Jag buit with this years aero package. Luizzi made a mess of the 2nd session but it's pretty clear in testing that he's got the edge on Klien in terms of pace and racing if his F3000 is anythign to go by.

Looking good for McLaren - I often thought De La Rosa was underrated and his testing ability could be key this season. Disappointed by Villeneuve's times - i'm suer he won't like being beaten by Massa!!!

Still qualifying's a different matter and we all know how good MS, JPM and Kimi are over a single lap.

 

[tom k&e]

schumacher to win again.

no more then 25 overtakings in the whole season excluding lapping.

wont be too bothered if i miss any races, but i wont but too much of a dampener on the thread

Do you know how many overtakings there were in total last season? 307. That's excluding pit stops, lappings & the first lap.

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&[email protected]&rnum=1

 

[g force]

Good point - problem is they never show it on TV because it's teams liek Jag and Jordan overtaking each other.

Seems as if Minardi have been backed by all the teams to take part in the qualifying session tomorrow and won a court order declaring the cars legal. Which is odd, becuase they're blatantly illegal by their own admission

 

[The Boy]

Seems as if Minardi have been backed by all the teams to take part in the qualifying session tomorrow and won a court order declaring the cars legal. Which is odd, becuase they're blatantly illegal by their own admission

Really? How so? It's an honest question as my inteerst in F1 has waned slightly over the past couple of seasons and I know virtually nothing about the changes that have happened over the winter.

 

[wordie]

Seems as if Minardi have been backed by all the teams to take part in the qualifying session tomorrow and won a court order declaring the cars legal. Which is odd, becuase they're blatantly illegal by their own admission

Well, as I understand it, the court didn't actually declare the cars legal, they said that Minardi could qualify/race, overruling the stewards of the meeting, who had disqualified Minardi from qualifying and thus racing. (Quite justifiaby IMO...)

The Minardi cars are technically illegal, as Stoddy feely admits, but he claims Force Majeure because the FIA changed the rules too late for him to make the necessary changes.

(Other teams took a punt and invested money to make changes before the rules were finally agreed – Stoddy, and Minardi, say they didn't have the money to do the same!)

The problem, for both Ferrari and AFAIK, Red Bull, is that they are worried that their 2005 cars won't be as fast as Minardi's 2004 car, and may lose points. In Ferrari's case, it's the fact that the rules are in place and everyone should abide by them.

It's all bollocks and political smoke and mirrors anyway. The cars are illegal, so if they finish in the points, which I doubt, they will be appealed and almost certainly lose them. It's good PR for Stoddy and bad PR for the villans of the piece, Ferrari. Red Bull are just jumping on the band wagon.

Personally I don't think it would break anyone's balls to allow Minardi to race in what is effectively their "home" race. They won't score points anyway! Ferrari are acting like spoilt brats because the rest of the teams are against them and it's a bunfight F1 simply doesn't need. But there you go....

On the other hand, rules is rules and if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. The rules are the same for everybody, and why should Minardi be allowed to race, except for emotional reasons, if they don't meet the rules?

 

[wordie]

An update from that post of mine above....

Seems Stoddy has really stirred the FIA hornet's nest. The FIA are now suggesting, understandably, that Aussie judges shouldn't be making decisions that override the rules of the accepted world motor sports body. And, (wagging finger mode) if that's likely to happen then Australia may not get anymore world championship events – including rallying etc,.

Bernie has also weighed in with his 2 pence worth: Full story here!

Meanwhile, F1 commercial rights holder Bernie Ecclestone has weighed in on the increasingly bitter dispute between Stoddart and the FIA, saying that he believes the Australian should quit the sport.

“Paul’s been a bit of a nuisance since day one, but we have protected him,” Ecclestone told The Sun. “Regretfully, there is now no place in Formula 1 for someone like him. If you can’t sustain running a team then you should get out.

“That’s precisely what dear old Eddie Jordan did, and that’s what Paul should be doing. This is an expensive game to be sitting in on and if you can’t afford the ante you shouldn’t take part in the school.”

 

[wordie]

Here is a good explanation of the Melbourne farce!

 

[Wowbagger]

The F1 grid! Is upside down! The F1 grid is upside down!

Well, I'll be watching in just over an hour. The question is, how long will it take me to fall asleep?

 

[Red Faction]

who would have predicted that?!?!
very interesting race
1.fisichella
2.barichello
3.alonso
4.coultard
hmm
very interesting indeed

 

[The Boy]

Cracking race compared to last year's procession. R

Reckon the new rules re: one set of tyres for qualifying & race could be interesting. Although I'm sure they were saying on t'box that under certain circumstances, eg a badly worn tyre, it can be replaced. This does not, however, apply to punctures. Thought it would make more sense to give the stop-go-penalty to those who can't preserve their tyres rather than unfortunate peeps who get a puncture?

 

[Red Faction]

makes you wonder tho- michael schumacher- the greatest driver in the world
didnt get into the points zone at all
he was nowhere near dreaming of a podium place when he crashed out
and why did he crash out?
cos he forced heidfeld onto the verge- fool- he knew- or at least should have known what was going to happen

 

[Silva]

Monteiro seems to be already in the glorious path of Lamy and Matos Chaves - second, starting from last.

whopee.