Extinction Rebellion

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Jeremiah18.17, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. nyxx

    nyxx Well-Known Member

    Mate, the most constructively, sensitively, sensibly put criticisms have met with hyper-defensive hysterics. If you question anything at all about them you’re personally responsible for the the end of the planet. They’re just not interested in any of it, end of.
  2. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    There's rumours about financial misbehaviour but is it more serious than that?
  3. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    Not here they haven't.
  4. nyxx

    nyxx Well-Known Member

    Nah I think you’ll find I’m neither defending or backing down. You can piss off with your bizarro reworking of my words as well.
  5. nyxx

    nyxx Well-Known Member

    Here is hardly the centre of the internet
  6. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    Although it is where this discussion is happening. So kind of relevant.
  7. littleseb

    littleseb littleseb

    xr are easy enough to pin point. they usual advertise their whereabouts.
  8. nyxx

    nyxx Well-Known Member

    You really think this here thread is representative of the sum total of communication and discussion that’s occurred re extinction rebellion?
    Sorry to burst your bubble but in the scheme of things it’s just not that relevant.
  9. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    It’s where you made some ambiguous claims that you then backed away from. What the rest of the internet has to do with that is anyone’s guess.
  10. nyxx

    nyxx Well-Known Member

    You’re not even trying to follow.
    I was responding to Lynndoylecooper’s post, but you’re trying to make it about something else.
  11. nyxx

    nyxx Well-Known Member

    & I’m not backing away from any claims. I’m keeping my reasons ambiguous here, however I’m 100% keeping them, and I actively hate the fucker.
  12. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    No, you have it the wrong way round. You're saying things HERE and then pulled on it HERE you suddenly start talking about the rest of the internet. If you didnt really want to discuss those things HERE, why bring it up?
    TopCat likes this.
  13. nyxx

    nyxx Well-Known Member

    Have you even read the post I was quoting?
    Until you have and you demonstrate full understanding of that context there’s no conversation to be had here.

    I was responding to stuff lynndoylecooper brought up, but you’ve got it all mixed up, but then that’s par for the course.
  14. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    Here's a good example..A totally disingenuous story which has been retweeted, picked and gloated over by all the usual suspects

  15. Riklet

    Riklet procrastinación

    What a dumb idea. I support some of their aims, I am sceptical about a lot of things, was inspired by seeing what they do and a city transformed, but we deserve a much less wooly movement.

    One of the most refreshing things about XR is the way they have shown what the right knows all too well - you dont need to get political power or even play that game to shift the conversation, to change minds, to realise social change.
  16. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Unless I'm misunderstanding something, that's the exact point, the post about letters and emails to the police wasn't anything made my XR, it was a suggestion made by someone on their forum I think and picked upon as a stick to beat XR with.

    I'm a sucker for some ultra-left uber critical positions myself, but I think there is a cultural/political problem in our scene/movement/whatever at the moment, and it can been seen playing out in a number of areas (arguments about trans stuff for example) where's a complete lack of flexibility or nuance in the way some people see things, it's a unforgiving and brutal attitude, and it is really politically destructive and personally demoralizing.

    In my opinion it's related to the growth of identity politics and the 'calling out culture' around that, it's related to some people sometimes being quite damaged and a bit unstable, the collapse of collective structures and growth of individual/small projects, and it's obviously related to the internet in how easy it is for people to say something stupid that exist forever and get picked up on, and how easy it is for people to make accusations, misinterpret something, or just be plain disruptive. Not to mention the tendency for some cartoon anarchists to use slagging off of some things purely as an ideological and egotistical booster to their own identity and position as the only true radicals.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
    Flavour, vanya, Miss-Shelf and 6 others like this.
  17. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

  18. Rob Ray

    Rob Ray Irony is well sad

    In mine the incidence of people jumping to conclusions, why they do so, how they do so, who they do it to and what the impact might be on any given topic is much, much more complicated (and specific) than the above suggests. And tbh, in itself I'd say blaming "idpol" (which imo is the laziest descriptor to have been popularised on the left in recent memory and is at least as poisonous to clear debate as the various cultures, individuals and fashions it aims to criticise) or "cartoon anarchists" (ditto - I mean fine tell off people for talking bollocks, but acting like armchair anarchism and a censorious attitude/egomania/refusal to listen are one and the same is just silly - ) is also in the category of "totally bloody unhelpful."

    Edit: Just to expand a bit, there was what I'd consider a fairly definitive moment related to "callout culture" and such the other week with Contrapoints. I'd pick her as probably one of the most important voices about trans issues among the under-30s today, certainly on the radicalish left. She's considered, kind, courteous and open about her politics and often interrogates her own position on stuff.

    The other week, she made a comment on Twitter about feeling uncomfortable in spaces where pronouns are announced ("hi I'm Rob Ray, he/him" etc) because she wanted to feel like she could pass (as female) without having to say anything (I paraphrase). The response from nonbinary people on Twitter was huge, thousands of people were posting to her in a range of different ways, from calm consideration of the point all they way up to screaming fury. Which isn't "callout culture" inasmuch as we're not talking about a small number of people deciding to cancel a mate, we're talking about people feeling moved to give their opinion on a matter of interest. Thing is, everything @ her was showing up on her timeline. Thousands of posts. And regardless of the actual overall tone of the conversation, what it of course comes across as is a tsunami of screaming about you having done something wrong. This caused her to leave Twitter, which actively deprived trans people of an influential voice.

    Now the reasons for that tsunami are just unfathomably complex, though you could probably extract key reasoning and critique if you delved into the sum of the posts. The screamy ones could be for practically any reason, from a bad day to a bad high to a mental break to a poisonous inward turn among a group of friends to just a really headbangy attitude. And there's fuck all we can do about it, because we're not talking about a few rum uns who can be turfed out of the movement, or a bad trend we can reverse, we're talking about globally-constructed masses of people all posting from a million different perspectives and from as many different interlocking community bases, who often have radically different cultural standpoints (eg. US hyper-individualism vs anywhere else). It's a fucking mess, and it's not going away, but it's not particular to the left, to young people, to old people, or to whatever "idpol" is supposed to mean.

    This, incidentally, may well be a phenomenon worth interrogating in terms of how different generations are reacting to the various arguments anarchism is having with itself right now. For the younger generation, most of them have grown up with the mute/ban button as the primary means of controlling what would otherwise be an overwhelming whirlwind of bonkers behaviour. Controlling inputs isn't just a matter of whether open speech is needed to develop your politics, it's the only way to filter out what you consider to be worth listening to. The problems that builds are many (political bubbles, intolerance of difference etc) but it's not the weak-minded or cosseted approach that is sometimes projected and a real engagement with this phenomenon actually requires quite a lot of constructive thought, rather than just moaning about teh yoof and their banning and idpols.

    Final edit: Having written all this, I apologise for the diversion! I guess it should have been in the identity politics thread, but I really don't like that thread as it basically just feels like a circlejerk".
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  19. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    Guy Smallman, lefty scruffy photojournalist nicked on Heathrow Pause action this evening.
  20. redcogs

    redcogs in the gutter beholding the stars

    Is Smallman still slammed up for journalism Red Sky?
  21. Miss-Shelf

    Miss-Shelf I'll meet you further on up the road

    Released last night
  22. redcogs

    redcogs in the gutter beholding the stars

    Looks like the 'UK' has joined other tin pot dictatorships and started lifting journalists for doing their job. So much for a 'free press'.
    Miss-Shelf likes this.
  23. vanya

    vanya Well-Known Member

    Statement from Hallam

    redcogs likes this.
  24. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    Some more compo coming his way in a bit then
  25. redcogs

    redcogs in the gutter beholding the stars

    If the coppers spitefullywrongfully arrest a lefty journo, then a compo payment seems to be quite a good thing. i'd want you to receive one if the state slammed you up Pickman's model. i'd even write you an encouraging note whilst you were inside:)
    muscovyduck likes this.
  26. Lupa

    Lupa Well-Known Member

    ‘You have stolen my dreams,’ Greta Thunberg tells world leaders
    Her speech at the UN climate summit was sobering. But how many are really listening? And how many are committed to radical changes that are required?

    She says "“With today’s emissions levels, our remaining CO2 budget will be gone in less than eight and a half years."

    This is terrifying.
    What is wrong with us that we can push this to the back of our minds and carry on as if it's not going to happen?
  27. Miss-Shelf

    Miss-Shelf I'll meet you further on up the road

    Same mechanism that allows is to tolerate uk arming genocidal regimes for lots of lovely cash or thinks it's perfectly acceptable that refugees should prove their desperation to get asylum in UK by sneaking into or under a lorry or floating a leaky dinghy across dangerous shipping lanes to Dover :(:mad:
  28. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

    muscovyduck and redcogs like this.
  29. redcogs

    redcogs in the gutter beholding the stars

    Roger Hallam remains slammed up. i never thought that predictions of doom could ever be compelling, yet this extinction rebellion view deserves some attention.
  30. Flavour

    Flavour hang the bankers

    Simply put, people don't really believe it. Not saying they're deniers of the science, by now they're just a tiny irrelevant lunatic fringe of the American right, but even if we accept the science to be true, we don't really believe in the consequences of that science. It's too massive and systemic and invisible to take seriously when there's so much more immediate stuff going on demanding our attention. Even now. It's very sad. But greta and XR and so on won't have any impact until they're actively opposing our entire social structure (which we may call capitalism but that's not entirely true).

    The truth almost nobody is ready to make the enormous sacrifices we need to make in order to save the planet. Normal people justifiably feel less-than-guilty and expect politics/business to sort it out. Politicians too scared to enact radical change because it threatens the economy and endangers their position in office. Business defends itself by claiming it only sells what the people ask for.

    Others just assume some miracle cure will be provided by science.

    The truth is it's already too late. We're going to lose a lot of our environment, cities, people, biodiversity, food production capacity, indigenous peoples, coastal communities. The question now is how much can we save? As the clock ticks the theoretical maximum we can save shrinks further.

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