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Extinction Rebellion

Red Sky

It was like that when I got here.
I mean, in the last year I was the main person organising roof repairs, repointing, loo replacement, stair fixes and a bunch of other stuff at Freedom on pretty much the exact basis described above. So it's not exactly optimism.
Well I'm glad it's more harmonious there!

But actually this kind of returns us to the XR point. Do I spend my time maintaining a building for a group the main order of business of whom seems to be who to ban next and is constantly struggling to find consensus meaning that all decisions are continually deferred or do I spend it (As I did this afternoon) out putting up access for mural painters for XR in what turned out to be quite a laugh?
 

Rob Ray

Irony is well sad
Well, I'm an infrastucture man so I tend to work on the basis that when it's not a laugh is exactly where a stolid brand of helpfulness is most important, because we've got endless opportunities to paint murals but very few walls to call our own.

It's also always worth bearing in mind that in any vaguely fractious volunteer collective about 80% of the honourable comrades will usually move on within three years. Often less. And in the worst case scenarios if no-one's fighting the radical corner it'll be the most obnoxious chancers who end up with a free building.
 

redcogs

in the gutter beholding the stars
Has naive Roger and the other comrades been released from custody yet? Have they been charged? my quick search didn't reveal anything im afraid.
 

Red Sky

It was like that when I got here.
Well, I'm an infrastucture man so I tend to work on the basis that when it's not a laugh is exactly where a stolid brand of helpfulness is most important, because we've got endless opportunities to paint murals but very few walls to call our own.

It's also always worth bearing in mind that in any vaguely fractious volunteer collective about 80% of the honourable comrades will usually move on within three years. Often less. And in the worst case scenarios if no-one's fighting the radical corner it'll be the most obnoxious chancers who end up with a free building.
"Social centres and were they worth it ?" Is probably a whole other thread.

However I think you've put your figure on it, albeit in reverse. The ownership of buildings is a major cause of strife. Instead of collectives forming around affinity or similar beliefs we end up with a weird hodge podge of a coalition which has a major asset. This is what leads to strife instead of people peaceably going their own way and acting together as and when their interests overlap.

The movement I got involved with didn't own buildings, it squatted them.
 

Rob Ray

Irony is well sad
All the squats are gone mate, they went along with the street parties and it's no use pining after them. The question is what's left, what's there to work with now, and what's the way to make it better.
 

Rob Ray

Irony is well sad
As in the street parties run by organised crews of reasonably well linked self-conscious anarchists (though I'd reckon Occupy had and to a lesser extent regional XR still has an anarchist lean). They disappeared along with the squats and the musical movements, and the focus is somewhat different now as a result. But I just don't see the point of pining over what was or sneering about what is tbh.

But then again I came in when the party scene was already on its last legs, and was never big into it in the first place, so I guess I lack nostalgia.
 

Red Sky

It was like that when I got here.
As in the street parties run by organised crews of reasonably well linked self-conscious anarchists (though I'd reckon Occupy had and to a lesser extent regional XR still has an anarchist lean). They disappeared along with the squats and the musical movements, and the focus is somewhat different now as a result. But I just don't see the point of pining over what was or sneering about what is tbh.

But then again I came in when the party scene was already on its last legs, and was never big into it in the first place, so I guess I lack nostalgia.
I don't the collectives putting on street parties were anything like what you mean by "anarchists". In fact class struggle anarchists at the time looked down on them as useless bongo playing liberal hippies.

So I'd suggest you're suffering from fauxstalgia.
 

Rob Ray

Irony is well sad
So what are you bemoaning then? That unorganised non-anarchists used to put on better parties in the good old days in some nice squats and now they've all grown up and fucked off and the today's anarchos aren't so much fun any more? I mean fuck man of course they have, that's life.

And for the record, I've always got on fine with bongo players putting on hippie gigs, in fact I'll usually do the bar, door or washing up if I'm about.
 

Red Sky

It was like that when I got here.
So what are you bemoaning then? That unorganised non-anarchists used to put on better parties in the good old days in some nice squats and now they've all grown up and fucked off and the today's anarchos aren't so much fun any more? I mean fuck man of course they have, that's life.

And for the record, I've always got on fine with bongo players putting on hippie gigs, in fact I'll usually do the bar, door or washing up if I'm about.
No , I'm pointing out that there's always been a bitter remnant denouncing the new thing as naive liberal nonsense.
 

Rob Ray

Irony is well sad
That's not even a tenth of what you've been saying on this thread Red — and you're not talking to someone who's denounced "the new thing" as liberal nonsense, in fact my main take is that it's not new at all.
 

redcogs

in the gutter beholding the stars
I don't doubt that people from XR have or will get the right idea but I have grave reservations about XR as a vehicle
i can agree with this. But can any of us wait around until an ideologically acceptable and politically pure movement springs up? According to Roger Naive we've a decade or so before famine grips the globe and social collapse begins to bite.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
i can agree with this. But can any of us wait around until an ideologically acceptable and politically pure movement springs up? According to Roger Naive we've a decade or so before famine grips the globe and social collapse begins to bite.
A better movement would not only have better politics but be a movement which will be effective at more than publicity and blocking streets
 

LynnDoyleCooper

I fucking told you so.
I think XR is needed. What boils my piss is that it’s still anything but class politics. Annoys the fuck out of me.
What makes it not 'class politics'? And I mean it as a serious question and point of discussion.

The anti-roads and related stuff was often dismissed as such, but this is a good article that I think addresses some of those criticisms and made a really big impact on me when I first read it.

The politics of anti-road struggle and the struggles of anti-road politics - the case of the No M11 link road campaign

Sometimes I think people have a tendency to dismiss anything that isn't about blokes in flat caps assembling tractors in a factory as not class politics.
 
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Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
What makes it not 'class politics'? And I mean it as a serious question and point of discussion.

The anti-roads and relate stuff was often dismissed as such, but this is a good article that I think addresses some of those criticisms.

The politics of anti-road struggle and the struggles of anti-road politics - the case of the No M11 link road campaign

Sometimes I think people have a tendency to dismiss anything that isn't about blokes in flat caps assembling tractors in a factory as not class politics.
Of course it's class politics but from what I've seen the politics of XR are the politics of forelock tugging, eg when they wrote to the queen
 

LynnDoyleCooper

I fucking told you so.
Of course it's class politics but from what I've seen the politics of XR are the politics of forelock tugging, eg when they wrote to the queen
Some of it is for sure (really a small minority) but surely/hopefully it has the potential to transcend that?

And how and why is that totally different to loads of what people support as 'real class politics' when that's also often also asking parliament for reforms, begging MPs for help, etc etc.?

E2A: In Berlin on a Friday night talking about XR on the internet. fml :facepalm:
 
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redcogs

in the gutter beholding the stars
A better movement would not only have better politics but be a movement which will be effective at more than publicity and blocking streets
Of course it's class politics but from what I've seen the politics of XR are the politics of forelock tugging, eg when they wrote to the queen
Dear your highness please would you mind if me and some of my mates this weekend overthrew the world carbon economy and replaced it with a hippy oriented peace and love green eco windmill and chimes barter based Ommmm exchange?:D
 
What makes it not 'class politics'? And I mean it as a serious question and point of discussion.

The anti-roads and related stuff was often dismissed as such, but this is a good article that I think addresses some of those criticisms and made a really big impact on me when I first read it.

The politics of anti-road struggle and the struggles of anti-road politics - the case of the No M11 link road campaign

Sometimes I think people have a tendency to dismiss anything that isn't about blokes in flat caps assembling tractors in a factory as not class politics.
Obviously the environment killing us all is (not) in the interests of the working class but it’s not as if it’s tied to any other demands.
 
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