Extinction Rebellion

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Jeremiah18.17, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. Rivendelboy

    Rivendelboy Banned Banned

    I don't know how to really feel about XR. There's something there I don't like. At the same time, I admit that, despite my political aspirations, I'm not much of an activist, so what the fuck do I know and i'm full of shit.

    Parking a boat on a bridge on major throughfares just seems stupid. I'm not convinced people looking at this can see how this ties in to climate change. They're just going to see people camping on the street and blocking traffic. Besides which the state can just wait them out; let them wave their banners for their "week of rebellion" and then after they fuck off back home go back to business as usual, point to a few scraps of waste and say "look they're hypocrits".

    I'm suspicious of their leadership. Roger Hallam has some stupid ideas which in the preceding 48 pages of this thread I haven't read have probably been mentioned.

    Then there's the whole shady 'XR Corporate' aspect and the big money behind Greta Thrumberg (sorry if that's misspelt).

    The whole thing is starting to feel, to me, like its all 'branding'. I can't articulate this well, but "summer of rebellion" just feels like an exercise in branding and image, rather than a genuine voice of outrage from the working class.

    It's impressive how they have organised and spread (at least across FB). There's clearly a lot of good people who are active, setting up local groups, etc, but there's something about all this - aside from the tactical ignorance of the state and the police - that seems off to me.

    There I spoke. What the fuck do I know
     
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  2. BristolEcho

    BristolEcho Well-Known Member

    Think they've really fucked up in Bristol to be honest. People mainly pretty pissed off about the disruption.
     
    muscovyduck and Geri like this.
  3. Rivendelboy

    Rivendelboy Banned Banned

    I don't know where they are getting the boats from or how they're moving them around but it's a really obvious if fatuous criticism to complain at them for driving boats around and polluting in the process. They should have seen that happening.

    The problem with these protests to my eyes seems to be that they are just completely unorganised. One minute they just randomly decide to go block the motorway and then say "sorry but climate change is worse", which is a terrible answer that no one will take serious because their experience encompasses the immediate disruption much more than rising sea levels.
     
  4. rich!

    rich! stalin tache

    I spent it on beer. Sorry.
     
  5. Mr.Bishie

    Mr.Bishie Pickled Egg

  6. Chilli.s

    Chilli.s changed the little words

    Time has shown that politicians and capital has failed to address climate change with any urgency. I'm too old to protest but am pleased that someone is prepared to make a point about it. Inconvenient but worthy imho.
     
    Kate Thompson likes this.
  7. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

  8. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    Well it will be harder to control the activists if the police weigh in.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  9. YouSir

    YouSir Look out Laika, it's Earth.

    If the police weigh in the protests will halve in size overnight and the number of outraged Guardian articles will double. From some of the people I've met at their actions (in passing, I've not attended) I get the feeling that they genuinely don't believe the police will ever try to stop them. The potential use of force against protesters is, at best, an abstract idea that only effects other people.
     
  10. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    They'll run from here to castlebar
     
  11. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut ... the Great.

    Too true. Mind you it can work both ways...

    When living in Taunton years ago, the police asked the council to take down the Christmas tree before New Year's Eve night, because drunken people had developed a habit of climbing it around mid-night.

    The response was along the lines of 'Taunton's police don't need to deal with regular football matches & demos, surely they can look after a tree for one night'.

    When I read that in the local rag, I thought, well there's a challenge, I just knew the police were fucked. :D

    Come the night, the half a dozen coppers & their fence around the tree couldn't cope, several people broke their line, climbed the tree, and threw bulbs at the coppers. :facepalm: :D
     
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    I wish XR had the stomach for such antics
     
  13. shambler

    shambler Well-Known Member

    This certainly wasn't the mood around castle park yesterday evening. Lots of stuff going on, and very well attended in the sun - all ages.

    They really need to sort out the fucking music in these events, though. Jesus. At first I thought it was satire.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
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  14. Rivendelboy

    Rivendelboy Banned Banned

    What was the choice?

    A pertinent question, to be sure
     
  15. Rob Ray

    Rob Ray Irony is well sad

  16. BristolEcho

    BristolEcho Well-Known Member

    Well you'd expect the people at the park to be enjoying it wouldn't you? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
    shambler likes this.
  17. BristolEcho

    BristolEcho Well-Known Member

  18. shambler

    shambler Well-Known Member

    Yeah, fair play. But at least some people (lots of them) clearly are supportive. And although I can't be sure, it seemed like many were not necessarily dyed-in-the-wool activists, but people who happened to walk past/stop by and stick around.

    People at the park, those stuck in traffic jams, nobs on comment sections... They're all self selecting audiences to a degree, and not indicative. Hard to guage accurately.
     
  19. Rivendelboy

    Rivendelboy Banned Banned

    Agree, looking forward to the rest of the analysis. Particularly want to hear more about this claim "frame ecological crisis in ways that leave the door open for dystopian 'solutions'."
     
    muscovyduck and LynnDoyleCooper like this.
  20. not-bono-ever

    not-bono-ever Alles hat ein Ende nur eine Wurst hat zwei

    not a bad article .

    i am happy that my kids aare getting into protesting and thinking about activism- every time they to out i remind them that the police are not your friends- no matter how chatty they are, they are not your friends, they want to stitch you up. that is what they do.
     
    Almor likes this.
  21. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Rivendelboy and Pickman's model like this.
  22. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Edit, report already been linked to further above.
     
  23. nyxx

    nyxx Well-Known Member

    That’s beautiful :-D
     
    Pickman's model and cupid_stunt like this.
  24. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    The critique could have done without identity politics wiggling in for position.
     
  25. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    Excellent, the first one in particular. I'll be sharing that amongst local XR.

    The libcom one isn't very helpful in my opinion. Just anarcho mudslinging.
     
    Gramsci and Pickman's model like this.
  26. kenny g

    kenny g Sheeple Wake up!

  27. smokedout

    smokedout criminal

    Perhaps worth mentioning is that in the report Hallam bases his conviction upon that only non violent action can be successful, non violent actually means 'largely non violent' where violence refers to guerilla/militia activity. Non violent doesnt mean everyone sitting in the road to get arrested, it just means the absence of an organised armed struggle. Chucking bottles at coppers is still okay in this analysis.
     
  28. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    From the first article:

    Whether its unlikely or not this aspect of the XR thinking I don't like.

    see my previous posts and I've been at the protests in London.

    There is something deeply undemocratic in XR programme. I'm having this problem in Lambeth. When XR tell people about "Peoples Assemblies" they give the impression its some kind of direct democracy. Lambeth Council say they want to hold their version of a peoples assembly. XR Lambeth want their own. Which will be more diverse apparently.

    To get it straight the XR version of "Peoples Assemblies" has nothing to do with democracy.

    And Hallam is quite clear on that.
     
  29. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Actually its not.

    I've seen XR in action and anyone who gets shirty with police gets told to calm down.

    So no I don't agree with you here. Chucking bottles at police is not part of XR. I have heard them being told to "send out love to police" who are arresting non violent protestors. Not chuck bottles at them.

    The analysis as I understand it is that if hundreds of people who are non violent get arrested public opinion will support the protest. More people will come forward to be arrested. Until the protest becomes a mass protest bringing down the government. Or forcing it to bring in law that zero carbon will be brought in by 2025.

    To be replaced by unelected Peoples Assemblies. Who will be given different alternatives to get to zero carbon by 2025. Not to question the zero carbon policy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  30. smokedout

    smokedout criminal

    I mean in the report that Hallam has based his whole non violence strategy on, not the London protests.
     

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