Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Jeremiah18.17, Oct 27, 2018.
Migration predates capitalism which is why Turkey is Turkey
If the goals are to attain a sustainable planet and alleviate poverty (not sure if that’s a goal of XR or not), then why would mass migration exist as it does today? Seems bizarre that people like Frank think it needs to continue regardless of circumstances.
Funny that it predates capitalism by billions of years then.
I never said it didn’t. I’m sure there was poverty then also, however, aren’t we getting rid of that?
Yes. And a good way of avoiding poverty is to allow, or rather not to prevent migration.
Great. Which countries have no poverty btw?
Same ones that have open borders.
That's a bollocks criticism of XR, and your friend sounds like a deluded drama queen tbh.
Went to a local meeting and it was SO fucking frustrating and drawn out and pointless. Over THREE hours with no clear result IMO.
- vegan food for ages with not enough cutlery (waste of an hour)
- bullshit people's assemblies to decide what we were going to do when theyd already decided
- stupid cultish jazzhands and annoying handsignal bollocks so that deaf people feel included and to not interrupt the speaker (just lol, nothing more distracting than folk waving there hands when youre speaking or watching someone speak)
- No proper answer to democratic acountability or who is making the decisions just some bullshit answer about how we all are.
- Dominated by men for the important stuff.
- No microphones or anything sensible so could barely hear people.
- Inductions for new people rather than involving them in all the groups and decision making.
- Couple or loony ideas about 5g etc creeping in (tbf people were against focusing on single concrete issues v wisely).
Tons of people there though and more actions are being planned locally by other groups, not just XR so I think there is a lot of momentum. I for one will not be back to any planning or meeting stuff though.
Despite my criticisms of this local group I stick by my positive experienced of XR in London and what they actually achieved and the fact that no one else has achieved on a such a big scale that Ive seen or taken any notice of, not since Ocupy anway (which was probably even more flawed than XR).
Their budgeting is available to view online. They're allocating a lot of money to pay people, which I don't have a problem with in principle, but at the same time they appear to have allocated almost nothing of their £700k to legal support for arrestees. Looks like those who've been charged are being left on their own. They're going to look like right arseholes if they don't change that.
I tend to think what will limit/kill it is the internal pressures and politics rather than the hand of the State.
What area/town was the meeting if you're happy to say?
Yup. Amazing how fast white people will defend each other when the minority experience is pointed out as distinct from their privilege.
Aw you fell for it you adorable idiot.
Fell for what? Your claim that migration alleviates poverty by everyone moving to some magical poverty-free province that you can’t name?
Uproot and shift several thousand miles by these carbon emitting things and you may or may not be in a better position because markets.
Owen Jones interviews Extinction Rebellion
Hallam came across a right politically dodgy bastard with a touch of the wannabe cult leader about him. I really hope he's not running too much of it. Glad they managed to squeeze some idiot stereotypical hippies in at the end.
On minorites and XR.
Given the way this government goes on this isn't just about people of colour.
I have friends from other EU countries living here.
They will have , if Brexit bollox goes ahead, have to apply for what the government called Settled Status.
This is likely to look at any convictions or trouble with the law one has.
So at this time and possible in the future there are whole section of people in this country who are going to think twice about being involved in groups like XR.
This isn't a criticism of XR its a reality for many people in this country.
This government is stripping people of citizenship already. ( the woman who went to Syria to join ISIS). Not saying XR is same as ISIS. But a precedent is being made that if you are migrant here and get involved in politics you better watch out.
Quite - see e.g. Undercover policing enquiry
(Source in each case: as stated in the bottom left of each image)
Some alternative views on the recently concluded Extinction Rebellion British ethnic majority hippy protest party in central London:
These Items Represent the Extinction Rebellion Protests
Why I support but can’t join Extinction Rebellion
Extinction Rebellion Is Inspiring, But The Movement Risks Leaving People Of Colour Behind
Are Extinction Rebellion whitewashing climate justice?
Have you read any of this thread?
Did you go up and see any of the protests?
Or are you like you do on Brixton Forum putting up a lot of links and photos that are not by you?
As for hippies.
A slight tangent but relevant.
As you know from Brixton forum I've been involved in campaign to save an Adventure playground. In an area that is majority black working class.
I've been talking to now adult born and bred Londoners about there experience of growing up in London in 70s. When Adventure playgrounds were a big thing in London. These are working class guys. They said they were great. And term the people setting them up and running them as the "hippies". Not in a derogatory way that you use but as a fact of what they were. They thought the hippies were great. The adventure playgrounds they set up and ran meant a lot to them.
So in terms of working class men I work with now the hippies you deride had positive influence on there lives.
To add. Hippies are much maligned. Easy to have a go at.
They clearly have no idea what a cult actually is, beyond a lazy click bait term. I can’t stand the lazy minimisation of that word.
Anyhow, Greta Thurnberg is inspirational for sure.
To see reactionaries and contrarians get triggered by a little girl is proper funny, like when “Islamic” loons lost their minds over Malala.
They bully her too, nasty mysoginists that they are.
But, just as with AOC, it’s not fair or wise for a collectivist movement to place lots of expectation and hope on the shoulders of one young person. She deserves nurturing and protection more than incessant praise.
Of course, establishment politicians and media fawn over her and want some of the glory of association. They are generally as far behind the curve as their actions are behind their words.
They always look to latch things onto a single personality, frankly because they tend to be dumb.
We don’t have to do the same.
She is young but her message is old.
We must all carry it.
I agree with LynnDoyleCooper Id go further. Hallam comes across as dodgy. Id say eco fascist.
Owen Jones piece is good. At end I got impression that the average XR protestor sees Capitalism as a problem.
The second women he interviewed was good.
But Hallam no. He is the kind of fundamanentalist deep earther that's put me off Green movement.
I'm getting flashbacks to Green Anarchist and that zeal.
Roger the dodger with a beard and camo.
Saw him on an early xr demo. Didn't like the look of him, which has been borne out by what I've seen about him since
Been seeing this request around the place for donations towards GBC for the extra work they've been doing for XR lately - essential that GBC are able to keep going!
I'm not convinced posting a link to a facebook post will work, so I've copy-pasted the text, and added the link to the donation page on Green&Black Cross's website.
"11 hrs ·
"Extinction Rebellion: check yourself! You've had 1000+ arrested and made over half a million pounds fundraising. Holy fuck! Now you need to own up and actually support the external legal team -the excellent folk at Green and Black Cross- that you have basically shut down with how much work you've thrown at them -endangering the legal support needed by the rest of the wider movement.
"Strait from the source: Extinction Rebellion has paid the Green and Black Cross **ZERO MONEY** for the tireless legal work they've done for the past six months. With the ridiculously huge kind of money XR has this feels abusive. I call on the Extinction Rebellion to donate 50k to the GBC - this would actually cover and help continue the GBC to do the amazing work they’ve been doing for XR and the rest of the direct action grassroots groups in the future. If you support XR, they don’t need any more of your money. Donate directly to the GBC here -I’ve just set up a monthly donation myself: Donate | Green and Black Cross
"Big shoutout to ACAB (Activist Court Aid Brigade) who are linked to the GBC and have also helped with XR court support (paying for arrestee travel funds etc). Donating to the GBC will help support ACAB, will support activists who need legal support.
"Also: the police are not your friends. And neither is capitalism. This kind of stance is strait up missing the point and contradicting to XR's mission of challenging government + corporate power. If you call yourself a rebel stop being so fucking centrist.
"RANT OVER -just kidding, only getting started. The Extinction Rebellion has a lot to learn. We all do. xxx
" #extinctionrebellion #putyourmoneywhereyourmouthis
or else: #activistburnout"
Donate | Green and Black Cross
(If there's a better way of posting that info do let me know via the inbox on here.)
nothing to Green & Black Cross who have provided a bunch of services to them for free (because that's how they work) - hopefully that will change - certainly needs to for them to regain any credibility.
See my post directly above this one for more info!
(Credibility in a general sense not from me personally, that's a whole other matter.)
Extinction Rebellion prison guide 'wrong'
Bit more deluded than I thought some of these folk.
Separate names with a comma.