Extinction Rebellion

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Jeremiah18.17, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. Brainaddict

    Brainaddict chief propagandist (provisional)

    It's like those anti-capitalist protesters who buy coffee at Starbucks eh? They haven't thought through even the rudiments of the problem, right?

    Or maybe you haven't.
    Nigel, Maggot, NoXion and 1 other person like this.
  2. Brainaddict

    Brainaddict chief propagandist (provisional)

    I'm glad there's more happening on this front and have been trying to be constructively critical for the most part. An interesting critique I saw from James Butler on fb the other week is that Roger Hallam and co are confused about what it is that makes social movements successful, particularly cause and effect in terms of arrests. Large scale arrests are a side-effect of successful social movements that begin to threaten state/capital interests. It isn't the arrests themselves that are the point, though they can become a catalyst to establishing the lines of the conflict. I think the thing is that, sure people might sympathise with what they consider to be unjust arrests, but you have to win the wider argument about what is an appropriate way to respond to the problem you are trying to solve. You don't even have to persuade everyone, only a vocal minority that has a bit of leverage on government for whatever reason (not saying that's a good way to do it, but it can work). But XR has not really done that. They haven't helped create a new 'consensus' about how to respond to climate change, and their tactics don't seem designed to do that, they've just decided that getting arrested will be disruptive enough to force the conversations they want to have. It feels like they want to be the leading edge of something, but there's not enough weight behind it.
    muscovyduck, Nigel and SpookyFrank like this.
  3. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    It’s kind of harder to avoid capitalism than it is going to Barbados instead of, say, Brighton.
    Of course the issues are structural. Most eco activists I’ve encountered espouse individualist actions as at least part of the solution though.
  4. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    Most people consider individual action to part of the solution to any problem.
    Nigel likes this.
  5. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    I said individualist, not individual.
  6. Brainaddict

    Brainaddict chief propagandist (provisional)

    Some do, some don't. Some may have noticed that a consumer boycott of fossil fuels significant enough to have any effect would bring the price of fossil fuels down, meaning that others could buy up more of it. The chances it would result in less fossil fuel being pulled from the ground is more or less zero.
    Nigel and Magnus McGinty like this.
  7. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    The state promotes those kinds of actions (reduce your carbon footprint, make ethical consumerist choices etc) presumably as it’s less effective. Perhaps it isn’t as bad as I think as you don’t get to see the reverse: those who don’t use it to virtue signal.
  8. Patteran

    Patteran A nowadays excuse

    It's odd, innit? Protest & change viewed as mathematics or algorithms & fed into a Google Rebellion Translate machine - a civil disobedience program written by AI that may be very clever but has never actually met any humans.
    Libertad and Nigel like this.
  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    This stuff is clearly influenced by fill the jails campaigns of the iww in the early 10s and 20s of the last century (or prob more likely the re-use of the official US civil rights movement). They were local or regional issues that flying squads could act on. This stuff just doesn't work on that level. They were tractable issues that could be dealt with through the use of the tactic. This isn't. So the sort of history that's being built for this future seems a little wobbly to me.

    edit: of course these campaigns relied on not being charged because of the volume of arrests.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  10. sihhi

    sihhi John 3:30

    Consciously trying to follow civil rights movement. See

    In fact more like CND. It warned of nuclear apocalypse or exterminism. They warn of species extinction. Similar willing waiting for arrests.
  11. Cheesepig3

    Cheesepig3 Cheese. Cheese. Cats.

    Yeah, some of us actually work in renewables rather than bleat about which bin the yoghurt pot goes in.
  12. xenon

    xenon A move in any direction

    They are not protesting the right way. They should learn from the successes of those who know better...
    muscovyduck and A380 like this.
  13. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    Not sure anything thinks they know better - surely it’s obvious even to a layman that getting arrested as a tactic might be counterproductive with such a small pool of activists.
    muscovyduck and Nigel like this.
  14. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Self-cleaning oven, the whole bit.

    Aparrently XR's 'legal team' have been seeking advice on such thorny questions as whether there's any law that makes a conversation in a public street protected private communication.

    They've also been telling people to represent themselves.

    These people are making me wish I'd invested heavily in facepalms a few months back.
    muscovyduck, NoXion, Nigel and 3 others like this.
  15. Miss-Shelf

    Miss-Shelf I'll meet you further on up the road

    I volunteered to support arrested ppl last Saturday. Bindmans was representing people

    I agree though that the campaign tactics are patchy at present
    Nigel and Maggot like this.
  16. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    Extinction rebellion have about 70 supporters in the (currently forming up) Together for climate change (sic) demo taking place today. It is expected they will get 1000 overall and are marching to Whitehall at 13:30 with a rally expected (until 15:00).
    Nigel and Pickman's model like this.
  17. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    Well they are off and have about 450 people. Well behaved thus far.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    Down from last time then
  19. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    They marched along a pre agreed set route. They handed in a petition to 10 Downing street. They had speeches in Richmond Terrace (Not blocking Whitehall). They went home.

    Not exactly RTS II
    muscovyduck and Pickman's model like this.
  20. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    Last week they said they were appealing to the queen because politicians had failed. Now they are handing in petitions to the politicians :confused:
    muscovyduck likes this.
  21. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    To be fair it wasn’t an XR thing, it was just a climate change march that they were at. Way too many speeches though.
    Nigel and TopCat like this.
  22. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Oh, a bit like the SWP, then. :)
    Nigel likes this.
  23. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Don't worry, it wasn't "we" who killed all the animals, it was me. Alone.
    Libertad likes this.
  24. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    I'm a member of the Greens, but my personal opinion of ER is much like my opinion of the Green Party in general: Too bourgeois, too attuned to white middle-class urban concerns, too accommodationist. It's all about doing stuff within the bounds of the system. Reformism doesn't work, even when backed up by constant low-level NVDA. Sometimes the genie has to escape the bottle, so the system gets shaken up. Pissing off a few thousand drivers once a week, will never achieve anything but polishing a few egos.
    muscovyduck, Nigel, NoXion and 5 others like this.
  25. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    From their FAQs
    FAQs | Extinction Rebellion

    Q: ‘Your demands are vague, slightly confusing and perhaps even contradictory. Why do you think you can achieve them?’

    n XR: This is probably because we have to write things down in short ‘soundbites’ that are communicable as headlines. There is much more detail underneath them. We are using cutting edge techniques to build a resilient mass movement. We know the task ahead is daunting and therefore that the likelihood of success may seem slim, but we are willing to do all we can to try and achieve this. Ultimately though, we are doing this because it is the right thing to do, in part we remain unattached to outcomes, meaning that although we hope we can save something of life on earth we try to stay motivated by action being the right thing to do (virtue ethics) rather than taking action because we think it will work (utilitarian ethics). However, the more of us that act on this basis in the face of the galloping global assault on our children’s futures, the more likely we hit the tipping point where the impossible becomes inevitable.

    Consciously impractical
  26. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    That Gail Bradbrook was profiled on Radio 4 yesterday. Predictably vomit inducing.
  27. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Outside BBC today in London 20181221_120706.jpg 20181221_120729.jpg 20181221_120807.jpg
    Nigel likes this.
  28. 8ball

    8ball Hetero Sapiens

    I wonder when it will be christened "The Gore-Tex Uprising".
  29. BristolEcho

    BristolEcho Well-Known Member

    They were out BBC Bristol today too. I gave a ding of my bell for them and they didn't even respond. Fuck them.
    tedsplitter, NinjaOwl, Nigel and 2 others like this.
  30. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    He was put today with a small brexit lot on whitehall

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