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Extinction Rebellion

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
A few comments on the article :

  • Underlying the whole article is why didn't XR ask me about their strategy as I'm an academic whose written books. I found this irritating.
  • On the "tyranny of structurelessness " he is right.
  • That XR is just a southern England based organisaton is just wrong.
  • There is now more debate. See posts about XR Scotland which openly criticise leading lights of XR.
  • On XR attitude to police showing that they don't understand the nature of the state I think he is wrong. XR official line is that so called parliamentary democracy is in hock to big vested interests. Why the call for mass civil disobedience. So XR do see the present State as a problem. My talks with XR on the ground is that they don't want to blame individual police who are just ordinary people caught in the crossfire so to speak. This still is questionable. But XR do have a criticism of the State. ( Though rank and file XR don't always get this I think. They think XR is like a pressure group. As one said to me she wants to get a message through to Boris).
On his discussion of SWP. That XR could become like a sectarian organisation. The Only Way is XR. I do think there is something in that.

Well I know SWP in my area. The SWP is quite strong but has members who been in it a long time. So not everyone burns out.

I'm involved in a couple of community campaigns. Which can grind one down. A friend gave up on that and joined XR as it seemed more like doing something.

I also think that XR , unlike SWP, do try to care about the member welfare. I've seen well being tents at XR demos. Not something the hard left does.

So whilst the writer of the article is right about some things I think this is a harsh outsiders view.

The writer of the article is an academic who luckily can combine being an academic with activism.

I personally would like to see the word activist ditched.

Most people who are socially concerned and do a bit ( I include myself in that) aren't full time activists. Unlike the writer of the article most people aren't going to be able to do that.
I spent the day watching XR court cases. No one from XR was there. Not much concern about member welfare I could see.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
How did the cases go? You said some people were pleading guilty. Not that I'm criticising people for that on individual basis.
2 pled guilty, each six month conditional discharge, 1 £400 costs, 1 £500, 2 not guilty of which one found guilty and has to pay £775 (had to leave before verdict given so don't know full sentence) and one I don't know outcome
 

8ball

Having a teeny break
No conditions at all imposed on the traditional Achaemeni ceremonial Burning Of The Police Vans, though.

Just sayin’
 

Gramsci

Well-Known Member
s12 and s14 being used on Kashmir protests now:

Conditions imposed on Free Kashmir protest
So Met are using Section 12 and 14 to reduce embarrassment to India. This isn't about public order. Indian High commission is in Aldwych. Within walking distance of Whitehall. Demo there on Sunday will not cause :
In order to prevent serious disruption to the community, the following conditions have been placed upon this assembly.
This is bollox. This is Sunday.

This is political decision. Can't have irate Pakistani and Indian supporters of Kashmir independence having a demo outside Indian High commission on Aldwych.

It would no cause no disruption to my life or the life of the average Londoner.
 

FridgeMagnet

Administrator
So Met are using Section 12 and 14 to reduce embarrassment to India. This isn't about public order. Indian High commission is in Aldwych. Within walking distance of Whitehall. Demo there on Sunday will not cause :


This is bollox. This is Sunday.

This is political decision. Can't have irate Pakistani and Indian supporters of Kashmir independence having a demo outside Indian High commission on Aldwych.

It would no cause no disruption to my life or the life of the average Londoner.
I was looking up references to this earlier today. There are a lot of nationalist Indian news sites and twitter accounts (and probably bots too) calling the whole thing an "anti-India protest" organised by Pakistan (one pretty typical article here). On a previous demo a window was smashed and it seems that there has been pressure put on by the Indian government to ban this one - I expect through standard diplomatic routes but also, for example, via Navin Shah and Sadiq Khan writing to Priti Patel.

Patel has claimed that the use of S12 & S14 wasn't her decision but actually all down to the police, which is patent bollocks tbh as the change is very recent and a few days ago wasn't being considered. In my TFL traffic email from yesterday morning there's a section saying:
Westminster – From 10:00 until 17:00 on Sunday 27 October, a group will form up at Richmond terrace opposite Downing Street, then move along Whitehall, the Strand and conclude at Aldwych. This is for a demonstration. Delays are expected.
so clearly it was all fine at that point. The same nationalist Indian sites are claiming this as a victory for them, because, well, it is.

Perhaps the fiction that policing in this country isn't politically driven will be challenged by the coming court cases from XR over S14 etc, but it's carried on so long that I doubt it will disappear.
 

CNT36

Not carbon nano tubes
Earlier they put an article up on Facebook about how Turkey's actions in Rojava are all about oil and how fab the PYD are then some supporters started saying they were being too radical. The next time I looked it had been taken down. All a bit odd.
 

andysays

Defiantly non-premium member
Seems like the Citizens' Assembly idea is getting some traction

Climate change: Thousands invited to join citizens' assembly
Letters are being sent to 30,000 households across the UK inviting people to join a citizens' assembly on climate change. Once participants are selected, the assembly will meet next year, with the outcome of their discussions reported back to Parliament. The initiative, set up by cross party MPs, will look at what members of the public can do to reduce CO2.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
People's assemblies can only be as good as the questions they're allowed to talk about. Like referendums. The phrase "what members of the public can do to reduce CO2" makes me immediately suspicious.
Yeh it's not even 'what can' but 'what they can', dictation beckons
 

Red Sky

It was like that when I got here.
The Tory fracking pause surely has a lot to do with the fact that XR + the Climate Strikes have pushed environmental issues to the top of the agenda.

Tory polling/focus group feedback showing that it's going to be an issue on the doorstep.
 

stavros

Well-Known Member
The Tory fracking pause surely has a lot to do with the fact that XR + the Climate Strikes have pushed environmental issues to the top of the agenda.

Tory polling/focus group feedback showing that it's going to be an issue on the doorstep.
I suspect more that much of the most vociferous anti-fracking of voters amongst the general public are in constituencies that firstly would be negatively affected by fracking, and who were campaigning against it before Extinction Rebellion, and secondly could be won by the Tories.
 

nyxx

Well-Known Member
The Tory fracking pause surely has a lot to do with the fact that XR + the Climate Strikes have pushed environmental issues to the top of the agenda.

Tory polling/focus group feedback showing that it's going to be an issue on the doorstep.
Nothing to do with the sustained anti fracking campaigns in every location it's been tried so far, all down to xr. Sure.

Have a look where the frack test sites are. How many of them are marginal seats. No one wants it in their back yard. It's an election ploy plain and simple.

xr been credited with everyfuckingthing including inventing lock-ons, should be used to it by now eh.
 

LynnDoyleCooper

I fucking told you so.
Nothing to do with the sustained anti fracking campaigns in every location it's been tried so far, all down to xr. Sure.

Have a look where the frack test sites are. How many of them are marginal seats. No one wants it in their back yard. It's an election ploy plain and simple.

xr been credited with everyfuckingthing including inventing lock-ons, should be used to it by now eh.
FFS, the post said a lot, not only the result of XR. And I agree with it, anti-fracking stuff has been going on a while, but XR has pushed these topics much higher up the public agenda. And of course other factors have played a part as well, nobody is denying that.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
Nothing to do with the sustained anti fracking campaigns in every location it's been tried so far, all down to xr. Sure.

Have a look where the frack test sites are. How many of them are marginal seats. No one wants it in their back yard. It's an election ploy plain and simple.

xr been credited with everyfuckingthing including inventing lock-ons, should be used to it by now eh.
Like chekov in star trek saying all inventions from russia
 

FridgeMagnet

Administrator
Extinction Rebellion protesters may sue Met after protest ban ruled illegal
Hundreds of Extinction Rebellion protesters may now sue the Metropolitan police for unlawful arrest after the high court quashed an order banning the group’s protests in London last month.

In a judgment handed down on Wednesday morning, Mr Justice Dingemans and Mr Justice Chamberlain said the section 14 order imposed during XR’s “autumn uprising” in October was unlawful.

Dingemans said: “Separate gatherings, separated both in time and by many miles, even if coordinated under the umbrella of one body, are not a public assembly within the meaning of ... the Act.

“The XR autumn uprising intended to be held from 14 to 19 October was not therefore a public assembly … therefore the decision to impose the condition was unlawful because there was no power to impose it under … the Act.”
I suppose we'll have to wait to see what new wizard wheeze the Met comes up with next time. As long as you break the law in a different way on each occasion it does the trick.
 
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