Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Jeremiah18.17, Oct 27, 2018.
You do know coppers are government employees I assume?
Errrm.... you don't actually believe that the royalty have anything resembling either authority or power, do you?
Anyhow, in taking that path I was quite clearly giving Her Maj, and 'er heirs and successors and the officers set over me, my authority to tell me what to do.
Quasi; they're actually local employees rather than central Government workers, deliberately, Bobby Peel set it up so for good reasons.
I was responding to the poster who seemed to be advocating for the seizing of power but wasn't advocating violence.
Well in that case all the horrible shit they do is just fine.
Then you'll be able to tell me what the legitimate procedure for forming a government without the crowns nod is? from where do the courts derive their legitimacy? I've never been prosecuted by The People here. Yes I'm aware that we live in a constitutional monarchy and parliament does the running of things. However the idea that a head of state, a hereditary monarch of Britain, has no sort of soft power at all is off. Is that the legitimacy? Because if the answer is no not really then its your first comment 'I'd be on the other side of the barricades'.
So the legitimacy of a state is bought with its ability to bring the pain at the end of the day.
If they don't have authority or power what is the point of them? What's the point of giving them millions of pounds a year?
Is it? How on Earth do you make that out?
2. So we never have a head of State like President Thatcher, President Blair or President Major.
The monarchy is a political irrelevance, we all know it.
Kill people. But only the people that Her Maj and dear old dead Sophia's heirs and successors tell you to.
Terrible tough job. Utterly beyond belief horrible. But you can not sign away your own morality.
I find your views interesting, but I am a bit confused by some bits.
Actually the whole thing. I wish not on phone cos I might be able to make more sense.
But in what way do the toxic bastards legitimally govern us? By what moral right? Glad they never got any of that power by violence though.
Yeh a) bollocks; b) see a)
Its only an irrelevance if we weren't discussing wider questions about power, legitimacy an the state. 'Authority is given'
if they live and breath and still own much of the land in the country, then they are hardly an irrelevance. fucking hell
The thinking is better saying they're an irrelevance and have them keep their heads than have people examine them and do unto the foul ersatz windsors what was done to the romanovs and bourbons
Could not agree more. Nobody expects you to; quite the opposite.
Even old farts like me who joined in the 80s were given excellent training on law of armed conflict, the crux of which is "I was just following orders" isn't a good answer.
And in all honesty no, it's not utterly beyond belief horrible. Actually bits of it were, but there was achievement and also illustration of some extraordinarily fine human qualities.
By an imperfect democracy; that's the only legitimate source of authority.
It's crap, but they don't get it by violence.
I'm a reluctant supporter of our form of government, and I'd like a great many changes to it.
I'm actively hostile to any form of violent overthrow of the State as it currently is.
They're irrelevant to a conversation about how authority or power may change hands.
I trust that you are aware of English history around where authority sat? Cromwell?
but we are talking about as an institution, the crown. And I wasn't addressing how power may change hands, I was questioning your post on legitimacy and authority.
this makes it a little clearer, but where do you think the flaw is, could it be the massive undemocratic counterweight of old money and class which dominates all forms of civil service and public life, politics, law. The last PM was related to the queen, but y'know, irrelevance.
They dug him him up and gave him a traitors death in the end
Thanks for your kind reply there. Genuinely. And yes you might see the worst of people but also the best
How much land does the Royal Family actually own?
Inside the British Monarchy's £13 billion property empire
A third of Britain STILL belongs to the aristocracy | Daily Mail Online
Scotland has the most inequitable land ownership in the west. Why?
How long until Extinction Rebellion are extinct?
yeah but tourism/
the royals are in an extinction procreation death spiral atm- soon we will all be royals if their offspring output and mingling with the masses continues.
Sorry, I joined the thread part through. I was hooking in to the riffs on seizing power 'n shit.
Ah but it was all mingled up. I'm very interested in legitimacy and authority, which are intricately bound up in the processes by which power and authority may change hands.
I think we'd agree that your list here at least makes a start on the flaws in our system.... you left out the media, unbalanced school curricula and grotesque differences in education generally by class, place and maybe race, and I suspect you, I and most posters here could go on and on.
Not a bad idea... how long has Margaret been feeding worms?
I've got a soft spot for James Butler because he's a lovely chap and often has interesting things to say even having jumped in the commentariat pond. But "have you considered becoming a Labour astroturf operation" is probably the worst ER hot take I've yet seen. The climate crisis demands more than blocking roads, Extinction Rebellion | James Butler
Don't get me wrong, ER has a lot to criticise. But its independence is not one of those things.
I agree, the Novara piece Miss-Shelf linked to earlier in the thread does a similar thing. Perfectly valid criticisms which somehow include the line "building popular power through trade unions, the Labour party and deep community organising.".
I think one of the advantages ER has is the sense of desperation that has no where else to go. Suggesting that a productive outlet for this is to go to local constituency meetings of a party that isn't even focused on the issue of climate change is distinctly short sighted.
so you're quite happy to decide who should get a twatting but less happy for other people to do the same. right.
My batphone has just blipped me a message that London Bridge is closed
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