Explosions on Underground:Suspects/stories/theories/anything not news thread

[AverageJoe]

regardless of the fact that such an assault would be more likely to make them explode?

& you seem almost amused by the erosion of civil liberties that appears to be going on, to the extent that a supposed assault on 8 people can be virtually laughed off - 'hey, they got rucksacks and lok, kinda muslim'.

Hardly a recipe for a harmonious society is it.

Fair do's.

 

[zcat]

- removed-]

well thats just racist disguised as humour

 

[scalyboy]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but has anyone else noticed a couple of eyewitness reports on the BBC site regarding a 'burning smell' and smoke on the Victoria Line at Stockwell seemingly on Friday 22nd?

"I got onto the Victoria Line train at Brixton, where I suspect that the bomber may have got on. Then just after it left Stockwell tube station, the carriage started to fill up with a strange chemical like smoke which we at first tried desperately to ignore. As the smoke grew thicker everyone started to scream and rush to the ends of the carriage, unfortunately the end that I was at had no access to the other carriage. So we all just crouched down on the floor, praying and waiting for the tube to pull into Vauxhall. Then as the train started to pull into Vauxhall station we all got up and waited to be let off. It was then that I saw the lone red and grey bag seeping smoke, it then was clear to me that this was a failed bomb attack. As the doors opened we spilled out onto the platform running and screaming, but then we calmed down and just quickly walked out of the station."

and

"I was on the Victoria Line tube going north this morning at about 9.15. In the tunnel between Stockwell and Vauxhall we all noticed a distinct burning smell coming from a carriage in front of us (the middle of the train). Passengers started opening the door in between the carriages and walking through into ours. Unsure of what was going on or what they were leaving behind we all stood up and followed suit. There was an eerie silence between us all as we calmly made our way down towards the end of the train. We arrived into Vauxhall station where everyone leapt off the train. I remember seeing a girl, visibly frightened and white as a sheet leaning against the tube wall and as I approached a guy, a stranger, took her hand and kept hold of it, in order to lead her out with the rest of us."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4703867.stm

This doesn't seem to have been covereed in the official accounts of the Stockwell shooting - anyone any ideas?

 

[detective-boy]

well thats just racist disguised as humour

It's also not even original. Following the Hungerford shootings years ago it was "It's Michael Ryans mums fault. She said "Hey, Michael. Shoot up the town and get us a pint of milk will you love" ...

 

[SubZeroCat]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but has anyone else noticed a couple of eyewitness reports on the BBC site regarding a 'burning smell' and smoke on the Victoria Line at Stockwell seemingly on Friday 22nd?

"I got onto the Victoria Line train at Brixton, where I suspect that the bomber may have got on. Then just after it left Stockwell tube station, the carriage started to fill up with a strange chemical like smoke which we at first tried desperately to ignore. As the smoke grew thicker everyone started to scream and rush to the ends of the carriage, unfortunately the end that I was at had no access to the other carriage. So we all just crouched down on the floor, praying and waiting for the tube to pull into Vauxhall. Then as the train started to pull into Vauxhall station we all got up and waited to be let off. It was then that I saw the lone red and grey bag seeping smoke, it then was clear to me that this was a failed bomb attack. As the doors opened we spilled out onto the platform running and screaming, but then we calmed down and just quickly walked out of the station."

and

"I was on the Victoria Line tube going north this morning at about 9.15. In the tunnel between Stockwell and Vauxhall we all noticed a distinct burning smell coming from a carriage in front of us (the middle of the train). Passengers started opening the door in between the carriages and walking through into ours. Unsure of what was going on or what they were leaving behind we all stood up and followed suit. There was an eerie silence between us all as we calmly made our way down towards the end of the train. We arrived into Vauxhall station where everyone leapt off the train. I remember seeing a girl, visibly frightened and white as a sheet leaning against the tube wall and as I approached a guy, a stranger, took her hand and kept hold of it, in order to lead her out with the rest of us."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4703867.stm

This doesn't seem to have been covereed in the official accounts of the Stockwell shooting - anyone any ideas?

I know this prob hasn't got anything to do with this but I took the Northern Line twice yesterday and noticed a smell that I had never smelled before. A bloke sitting next to me on one of the rides looked a bit concerned and may have noticed the smell too. It sort of smelt like the taste of strong olives, best way I can describe it. It may have had a slight chemically smell, I couldn't distinguish any particular smells though. It was a very very odd smell and sniffing it lots made me feel a little nauseous.

 

[scalyboy]

I know this prob hasn't got anything to do with this but I took the Northern Line twice yesterday and noticed a smell that I had never smelled before. A bloke sitting next to me on one of the rides looked a bit concerned and may have noticed the smell too. It sort of smelt like the taste of strong olives, best way I can describe it. It may have had a slight chemically smell, I couldn't distinguish any particular smells though. It was a very very odd smell and sniffing it lots made me feel a little nauseous.

At first, when I read those BBC eyewitness reports http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4703867.stm
I thought they must be talking about what had happened on Thursday (21/7/05). But those attacks (Warren St/Oval/Shepherd's Bush) were around 12.30PM, and the second account states 9.15:

"I was on the Victoria Line tube going north this morning at about 9.15. In the tunnel between Stockwell and Vauxhall we all noticed a distinct burning smell coming from a carriage in front of us..."

Unfortunately the BBC doesn't 'date-stamp' these posts! But the account above can't be referring to the Oval bomb attempt on 21/7/05, because

1) the timing is too early
and
2) the two posts state the Victoria line - so not Oval tube then (Northern Line)

Were those two accounts actually describing events from the 21st?
Or could it be that the posters experienced something on the 22nd that has, as yet, not been reported? In which case, either the reports of 'burning smells' were as a result of auto-suggestion - perhaps as a result of hearing the gunshots at Stockwell and thinking them to be detonators (but when was the shooting supposed to have taken place - I read somewhere it was at 10AM?). Or, and this is fairly wild speculation on my part, could the man shot at Stockwell have planted a device and was subsequently chased to the station? But he was supposedly on the street and chased *into* the station?

SubZeroCat, perhaps the smell was the residue of some form of decontaminant agent as a precautionary measure? Or maybe it really was someone with a big packet of olives from a deli?? You say that someone else on the train was also concerned by the whiff?

 

[SubZeroCat]

SubZeroCat, perhaps the smell was the residue of some form of decontaminant agent as a precautionary measure? Or maybe it really was someone with a big packet of olives from a deli?? You say that someone else on the train was also concerned by the whiff?

It may have been, I didn't think at the time it was serious, just a bit odd. The thing about the olives is that the smell was too strong for it to be a bag or wrapped up olives, however big. And it didnt actually smell of olives, it smelt like the taste of strong flavoured olives. Like I said, it was a very strange smell and it smelt unnatural. The way it looked to me is that the bloke who got on the carriage and sat down next to me had noticed the smell as well and was doing the same as me: looking around a little, sniffing the air, looking a bit confused...

I'm sure it was probably something completely unrelated but I thought it was worth mentioning. However, I've never smelt anything like it and I couldn't work out what it could be, that's the only thing that made me feel uneasy.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Brake fluid?

 

[noodles]

Brake fluid?

Actually seeing all the reports of odds smells, I did recall one time when a tube I was on braked really sharply; afterwards there was a pretty acrid stink. But nothing like olives though.

 

[laptop]

Trains don't have brake fluid - the brakes are applied by air pressure.

* Thinks about buying some olives to figure out what SZC smelled *

Edited to add: but yes, what noodles said: when a train brakes really sharply the brake-blocks smoke and you can get a heavy organic smell.

 

[p-j]

I can't understand all this crap about 'sophisticated operation', I mean how difficult is it for 4 guys to go on the underground, head in different directions, then blow a whole load of innocent people to kingdom come round about the same time? Basic requirements: (a) tube map, (b) watch, (c) bomb.

I think the construction of a working bomb is something that requires a little sophistication. You need to get the gear together (including some parts like detonators which can't be bought from Boots), you need to test them somewhere to make sure they work. This probably requires outside help - contact with someone who knows what they're doing. That requires communications. You have to do this without the security forces getting to you.

The IRA detonated a lot of bombs over the years - many failed to go off, some killed the bombers, some went off and caused no casualties, many operations were foiled by informers and the security forces. Perhaps it does take a certain amount of sophistication to get it right? Perhaps, given this thursday's events, these guys are just 'moderately' sophisticated.

 

[SubZeroCat]

Trains don't have brake fluid - the brakes are applied by air pressure.

* Thinks about buying some olives to figure out what SZC smelled *

Ok, let me make it clear: it didn't smell like olives.

It smelt like something weird, the only thing I could compare it to was the taste of strong, flavoursome, salty, acidic green olives. (if the taste was a smell iykwim)

The smell wasn't faint but wasn't that strong either, a bit rubbery and possibly chemically. I should've asked the passengers if they could smell it too but I didn't want to alarm anyone

Obviously it was nothing serious, we'd have known that by now. But it just struck me as odd cos I sat there sniffing away thinking 'Wtf is this?' I couldn't identify it as food, defo not perfume , human odours, etc.

 

[scalyboy]

It may have been, I didn't think at the time it was serious, just a bit odd. The thing about the olives is that the smell was too strong for it to be a bag or wrapped up olives, however big. And it didnt actually smell of olives, it smelt like the taste of strong flavoured olives. Like I said, it was a very strange smell and it smelt unnatural. The way it looked to me is that the bloke who got on the carriage and sat down next to me had noticed the smell as well and was doing the same as me: looking around a little, sniffing the air, looking a bit confused...

I'm sure it was probably something completely unrelated but I thought it was worth mentioning. However, I've never smelt anything like it and I couldn't work out what it could be, that's the only thing that made me feel uneasy.

Odder and odder. I've just seen this:

"I was on the Victoria line carriage that filled with a chemical smelling smoke after leaving Stockwell on Friday. After evacuating I stayed with police for over three hours answering questions and giving an account of what happened and they seemed to be taking it very seriously. Very few people stayed to give their accounts to police, not even the woman who pulled the emergency alarm who probably had a clearer idea of where the fumes came from.
John, Brixton"

on the BBC 'were you affected?' section
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4703867.stm

What's going on? Just some odd pong that would, any other day, be disregarded, but takes on significance because of the high alert? Or did something happen Friday AM - aside from the shooting - that hasn't yet been reported?

 

[laptop]

It smelt like something weird, the only thing I could compare it to was the taste of strong, flavoursome, salty, acidic green olives. (if the taste was a smell iykwim)

The smell wasn't faint but wasn't that strong either, a bit rubbery and possibly chemically. I should've asked the passengers if they could smell it too but I didn't want to alarm anyone.

Good try - smells are a bugger, aren't they? I'm wondering whether it's the smell I'd describe as "Bakelite" if I wasn't worried about revealing my age

"Phenolic", bitter... burnt-out computer power supply

 

[laptop]

What's going on? Just some odd pong that would, any other day, be disregarded, but takes on significance because of the high alert? Or did something happen Friday AM - aside from the shooting - that hasn't yet been reported?

If the eyewitness accounts sent to the BBC are to be believed, there were several other incidents in the area: without checking, someone turfed off a Northern Line train and searched on the platform; the thing with police telling passengers there was a suspect person on a train and then shutting the doors to check them off one carriage at a time (could be the same incident); and the Victoria Line evacuation mentioned.

But the most interesting accounts I saved yesterday are all second-hand - "my friend told me". Which makes me suspicious - when things get turned into better stories in the re-telling, who knows what happened...

 

[sufilala]

hmmm spooky-dooky!

i passed thru stockwell yesterday morning about 9.15 ....
on me way to waterloo... it went like this

left brixton, all normal at about 9ish ... the train stopped in the tunnel for quite a while,
already getting nervous about missing our train, the driver announced something then we set off again and reached stockwell.
changed trains, no bother, got on the northern...
didn't stop at oval fair enough.
then didnt stop at kennington!
the driver apologised as we trundled thru, i could see police on the other platform holding a train full of people.
arrived at elephant, changed onto the bakerloo & fucked off to waterloo, finally.

so that's my story all the way from brixton
sufi

 

[detective-boy]

Perhaps it does take a certain amount of sophistication to get it right?

We and the US spend fucking millions on the most sophisticated weapons development ever ... and still the bloody things go wrong ...

 

[detective-boy]

... if the taste was a smell iykwim ..

Is there a biologist in the house? I have a vague recollection that taste and smell are intimately related, use the same receptors, taste is just a really intense version of smell cos there's millions of atoms not just a few in the air, that sort of thing ...

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Is there a biologist in the house? I have a vague recollection that taste and smell are intimately related, use the same receptors, taste is just a really intense version of smell cos there's millions of atoms not just a few in the air, that sort of thing ...

Yes, taste buds can only do six or so different things, most of it's nose/smell based.

 

[laptop]

Is there a biologist in the house? I have a vague recollection that taste and smell are intimately related, use the same receptors, taste is just a really intense version of smell cos there's millions of atoms not just a few in the air, that sort of thing ...

I'm not actually licenced to practice biology - but I've read an awful lot of science books (until recently I was paid to read them )

Taste is dead simple. There are five "primary tastes", in the sense that red, green and blue are primary colours: these are salt, sweet, bitter, sour and umami (the last being the "savoury" flavour that MSG brings out.)

Smell is really complicated. It's not properly understood. The consensus suggestion that's being tested is that there are about 1000 "primary smells". This fits with studies of gene expression, but genes look stranger the closer you peer at them and the eventual picture could be very different. 1000 genes could produce fewer, or many many more specialised smell receptors that act as "locks" to which differently-shaped molecules are the "keys".

People with anosmia (no sense of smell) but intact taste barely "taste" food at all in the sense you experience it - almost all of "taste" is done by the nose.

 

[bossgin]

If the eyewitness accounts sent to the BBC are to be believed, there were several other incidents in the area: without checking, someone turfed off a Northern Line train and searched on the platform; the thing with police telling passengers there was a suspect person on a train and then shutting the doors to check them off one carriage at a time (could be the same incident); and the Victoria Line evacuation mentioned.

But the most interesting accounts I saved yesterday are all second-hand - "my friend told me". Which makes me suspicious - when things get turned into better stories in the re-telling, who knows what happened...

I was on the victoria line yestoday morning, at 9:15 on the tube train that was evacuated at vauxhall -this is exactly what happened, between stockwell and vauxhall, there was a strong smell of burning in one of the middle carriages. Thinking back I would guess it was the smell of burning rubber from underneath the tube. However a woman who pressed all the emergency signals on that carriage was screaming get out, get out -so like lemmings we all moved out into the adjoining carriage!!
I was one of the last people out of the carriage, i turned around and did not see any smoke, only a green suitcase left in the middle carriage.
I gather that someone either left the suitcase in the mad rush to get out of the carriage.
When we arrived at vauxhall, everyone on the tube sprinted for the exits -talk about mad crowd behaviour!
Thats all, this happened before the stooting at stockwell tube.

 

[laptop]

I was on the victoria line yestoday morning...

Ta...

 

[Orangesanlemons]

I'd like to point everyone towards Louloubelle's recent post on the NEWS ONLY sticky at the top of the page - a picture of two of the suicide bombers on a white-water rafting holiday in Wales a few weeks before the attacks.

I'd be interested in what people think about the picture - I'm finding it difficult to connect a) to b). Check it out and you'll see what I mean...

 

[eemurfee]

I'd like to point everyone towards Louloubelle's recent post on the NEWS ONLY sticky at the top of the page - a picture of two of the suicide bombers on a white-water rafting holiday in Wales a few weeks before the attacks.

Sounds fascinating, but can I fuck find the picture you speak of, despite 15 minutes of life's-too-short searching. Any chance of a direct link for morons such as me?

 

[TeeJay]

Try the Wales forum.

edit: Bombers went white water rafting in Frongoch, Wales

 

[Orangesanlemons]

Sounds fascinating, but can I fuck find the picture you speak of, despite 15 minutes of life's-too-short searching. Any chance of a direct link for morons such as me?

The last post of the NEWS sticky at the top of the page. Sorry - didn't think it would be that hard to find...
It's Here.

 

[scalyboy]

I was on the victoria line yestoday morning, at 9:15 on the tube train that was evacuated at vauxhall -this is exactly what happened, between stockwell and vauxhall, there was a strong smell of burning in one of the middle carriages. Thinking back I would guess it was the smell of burning rubber from underneath the tube. However a woman who pressed all the emergency signals on that carriage was screaming get out, get out -so like lemmings we all moved out into the adjoining carriage!!
I was one of the last people out of the carriage, i turned around and did not see any smoke, only a green suitcase left in the middle carriage.
I gather that someone either left the suitcase in the mad rush to get out of the carriage.
When we arrived at vauxhall, everyone on the tube sprinted for the exits -talk about mad crowd behaviour!
Thats all, this happened before the stooting at stockwell tube.

Thanks - that seems to clear it up. I guess that one account on the BBC describing smoke from a bag was actually referring to the Oval on Thursday.