explain something to me re: trade unions and labour

[articul8]

they didn't say anything *that* crude (they couldn't even if they wanted to now they are so dependent on UNITE money). But the conservativism of the present front bench is not ideological hostility to trade unionism per se (as with Blair) but born out of a terrible (if understandable) nervousness that unions should not take precipitate action which undermines their own ability to win in the long run.

I think they are too slow to appreciate the changed context. But the concern to maximise public support of union action is a strength.

 

[articul8]

He got serious backing in the selection from UNITE and elements of the GMB - organising phone banks and stuff. It wasn't a done deal, no. But without that machine behind him he wouldn't have won through.

 

[belboid]

Anyone?

not really, no. The friendly societies were often loosely industry based, but weren't organised as unions to defend workers against bosses, they were simply mutual societies, often including employers within them. They tended to be worker friendly, but weren't workers' organisatios

 

[Streathamite]

He got serious backing in the selection from UNITE and elements of the BMB - organising phone banks and stuff. It wasn't a done deal, no. But without that machine behind him he wouldn't have won through.

surprised by that, cos Leyton CLP think the sun shines out of his passage. I think he's a sound feller, but theirs is adulation

 

[belboid]

He got serious backing in the selection from UNITE

he used to work for Unite (as T&G) which is why they backed him

 

[articul8]

yes - I think it was a different kind of intervention than with Jack Dromey say, where a combination of Harriet pulling strings and the UNITE leadership wanting rid. I think they rated Cryer.

 

[Steel Icarus]

not really, no. The friendly societies were often loosely industry based, but weren't organised as unions to defend workers against bosses, they were simply mutual societies, often including employers within them. They tended to be worker friendly, but weren't workers' organisatios

Cheers.

 

[stavros]

I never quite understand why "being in the lap of the unions" is always a stick the right wing press use to beat Labour with (other than the right wing press being anti-union). They never compare it with being in the lap of tiny numbers of rich cunts stashing their cash offshore, for example.

 

[belboid]

because 'they' are the rich cunts stashing their cash offshore??

 

[stavros]

because 'they' are the rich cunts stashing their cash offshore??

Of course it is, but why is being funded by the common workers portrayed as such a problem?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Of course it is, but why is being funded by the common workers portrayed as such a problem?

because 'they' are the rich cunts stashing their cash offshore??

 

[Streathamite]

Of course it is, but why is being funded by the common workers portrayed as such a problem?

because they are an easier target to demonise, as regards some critical constituencies they want to win over, and keep won over.Such as; union members resenting the political fund, middle management, the middle classes in general, small businessmen, most people in the South outside of London, people who take tabloids seriously....the list is long, and all you need to do is bang on about TU 'barons' 'picket line hooligans'...and that mud will stick, esopecially with those who can't seed that a union is it's members, not its' EC

 

[Random]

they didn't say anything *that* crude (they couldn't even if they wanted to now they are so dependent on UNITE money). But the conservativism of the present front bench is not ideological hostility to trade unionism per se (as with Blair) but born out of a terrible (if understandable) nervousness that unions should not take precipitate action which undermines their own ability to win in the long run.

I think they are too slow to appreciate the changed context. But the concern to maximise public support of union action is a strength.

When the axe came into the Forest, the trees said "The handle is one of us"

 

[dennisr]

When the axe came into the Forest, the trees said "The handle is one of us"

*likes a lot*

 

[Steel Icarus]

Yeah. Gonna have to "appropriate" that at some point.

 

[Random]

I stole it off Aesop

 

[dennisr]

I stole it off Aesop

redistributed it... (appropriately - I should add...)

 

[Random]

Greece is in such a crisis that they're even having to sell off their fables.

 

[dynamicbaddog]

PLease PLEASE tell me just what the point is to having any faith in the Labour Party's likelihood of pursuing even slightly progressive ends?

I have every confidence that when the conditions are right working class people will reclaim the party , and Labour will be returned to government on a socialist programme

 

[Streathamite]

I have every confidence that when the conditions are right working class people will reclaim the party , and Labour will be returned to government on a socialist programme

seriously?
OK, what do you base that confidence on?

 

[dynamicbaddog]

seriously?
OK, what do you base that confidence on?

I think when people really start feeling the effects of the austerity cuts they will become more politicised and turn to their traditional organisations (ie LP, and the unions) for support. I can't see loose coalitions of ultra lefts like the TUSC being able to make much impact really.

 

[belboid]

so everyone will run back to a Labour Party that is currently telling them not to strike, or to try to defend their living standards?

My arse

 

[articul8]

I have every confidence that when the conditions are right working class people will reclaim the party , and Labour will be returned to government on a socialist programme

Terrible Stalinist line - if it hasn't happened it's because the conditions aren't yet right.

I don't have this confidence - but it's the least worst position from which build support for a socialist programme and even a failed attempt to reclaim the party could lay a serious basis for the emergence of an alternative.

 

[articul8]

I think when people really start feeling the effects of the austerity cuts they will become more politicised and turn to their traditional organisations (ie LP, and the unions) for support. I can't see loose coalitions of ultra lefts like the TUSC being able to make much impact really.

that's a different proposition - I think this might well be the case in the short term. Reclaiming the party is a different hurdle altogether.

 

[Streathamite]

I think when people really start feeling the effects of the austerity cuts they will become more politicised and turn to their traditional organisations (ie LP, and the unions) for support. I can't see loose coalitions of ultra lefts like the TUSC being able to make much impact really.

TUs, possibly, but why would they turn to labour when labour has so convincingly demonstrated its' indifference to the problems of working class people, its' desertion of class politics and its' spineless unwillingness to stand up for all the people most under attack by the condems?

 

[frogwoman]

I have every confidence that when the conditions are right working class people will reclaim the party , and Labour will be returned to government on a socialist programme

you really believe this don't you?

 

[dynamicbaddog]

so everyone will run back to a Labour Party that is currently telling them not to strike, or to try to defend their living standards?

My arse

Yes but do you think that the people who vote Labour or pay money to it via their unions share the same Blarite views?

 

[dynamicbaddog]

you really believe this don't you?

yes

 

[imposs1904]

Greece is in such a crisis that they're even having to sell off their fables.

 

[frogwoman]

yes

Fair do's mate. It would be great if you were right.