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Expenses scandal: Will help BNP and UKIP?

Fantastic attack on the BNP in today's torygraph

Opposite me were the two faces of the party: Griffin, mastering the argot of the Islington social worker, claiming to approve of "diversity"; and his hired skin-headed muscle. This veritable 300lb whopper took up most of the sofa's Lebensraum, but Griffin did the talking.

What would he do with those he couldn't send "home" because we don't know their nationality? It's the kind of thorny problem real politicians wrestle with, but Griffin looked like his head would explode. Eventually he spluttered: "Drop them out of a plane somewhere over Africa. I don't really care." I realised dialogue was futile.

Despite protests, Griffin may yet munch the Queen's cucumber sarnies, while MPs eat more humble pie. But the BNP are simply too stupid ever to kiss hands and take up the seals of office. It's hard to laugh, but they are just a joke.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...from-these-British-National-Party-jokers.html
 
Quarter of voters set to reject main parties at EU elections, poll shows

More than a quarter of voters are planning to reject the Westminster establishment in next month's European elections, according to a new Guardian/ICM poll carried out in the aftermath of the MPs' expenses scandal.

It finds that some 27% of voters are already planning to support a minority party. The poll also uncovered evidence that more could soon join them.

The results follow two weeks in which Labour, the Tories and the Liberal Democrats have been battered by the press and public over the publication of MPs' expenses.

Contrary to some predictions, however, the poll suggests that it is the Greens and the UK Independence party (Ukip) who are making the running on the political fringes, as opposed to the British National party.

Yes, ther BNP are on 1% in this poll really.

The Greens are set to take 9% of the total vote, while Ukip is on 10%, leaving the BNP way behind on just 1% – considerably down on the 5% the far-right party achieved at the last European elections in 2004.
 
no, expenses scandal won't help UKIP because their MEPs are expense-fiddling buffoons too.
Yes they are (well some of them and the criminal type too, not the "rules are wrong" types) but...

...How many UKIP MEPs have been subjected to the Telegraph's ire? (None)
 
This is how I see it, may be wrong.

The press and some politicians talk up the BNP, but UKIP are doing far better. The BNP will never get beyond a certain amount, even though the current 4ish % is disturbing I cant see it ever going beyond 6 to 7 even in the worst circs.

The Greens may be a bit niche, but not actually as niche as the fash and are now getting above 10 in polls.

But it is UKIP that have shot up, whatever you make of them at least their stance on the EU is clear and these are Euro elections. AFAIAC UKIP are not racist, at least no more so than the tories, but there is no point wanting independence from the EU while still being slaves to global fundementalist capitalism.
 
Yes they are (well some of them and the criminal type too, not the "rules are wrong" types) but...

...How many UKIP MEPs have been subjected to the Telegraph's ire? (None)

It wasn't the European Parliament's expenses which got leaked. But those unhelpful figures about the European gravy train in general and criminal behaviour from UKIP MEPs in particular have resurfaced because of this scandal. UKIP's own issues with defrauding the public purse got mentioned at least three times on Question Time. It's been brought up in the Telegraph too, despite your paranoid claims to the contrary.

Ukip may be seeking capitalise on the expenses imbroglio, but its record in this area is hardly spotless. Two of its MEPs became mired in scandal almost immediately after their election. Ashley Mote was expelled from the party and was later jailed for benefit fraud – he plans to appeal the verdict – while Tom Wise is facing prosecution for alleged false accounting and money laundering relating to his EU expenses. He denies the charges.

Ukip's detractors say the party exercises double standards in using its MEPs' expenses, which dwarf those available in Westminster, to fund anti-EU activity.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ons-2009-fact-and-fiction-on-planet-Ukip.html



Give up the conspiracy schtick. It's a dead end.
 
This is how I see it, may be wrong.

The press and some politicians talk up the BNP, but UKIP are doing far better. The BNP will never get beyond a certain amount, even though the current 4ish % is disturbing I cant see it ever going beyond 6 to 7 even in the worst circs.

The Greens may be a bit niche, but not actually as niche as the fash and are now getting above 10 in polls.

But it is UKIP that have shot up, whatever you make of them at least their stance on the EU is clear and these are Euro elections. AFAIAC UKIP are not racist, at least no more so than the tories, but there is no point wanting independence from the EU while still being slaves to global fundementalist capitalism.
Why though? Why will the BNP never go beyond 6/7% (and what do you mean - in a GE? euros?) And why do the Green have the potential to go through to 10% plus? What do they have that the BNP don't? Why doesn't the potential resurgence of the UKIP (again!) in these elections mean that a party operating in the same ball park but with a broader national focus that's picking up councillors be able to do similiar?
 
By way of some kind of information, this Thursday just gone, a by-election in Salford (turnout, about 17%)

Labour 606 (37.6%)
Liberal Democrats 293 (18.2%)
British National Party 276 (17.1%)
Conservative 189 (11.7%)
Green 125 (7.8%)
UKIP 123 (7.6%)
 
UKIP is a non-racist, non-sectarian party. I think you'll have to try harder than that.

That's what it says on the label but the contents speak differently.
But this hardly explains the success of two UKIP candidates in the London Assembly elections, where Europe was not exactly a major issue. Rather, the attraction of UKIP’s line on Europe has to be understood in the context of the openly racist propaganda that the party has directed towards white voters. Thus UKIP’s campaign against the EU concentrates on the alleged threat posed by immigration from Eastern Europe, tying this into a wider xenophobic attack on migrants, asylum seekers and foreigners in general.

The party’s website declares that Britain is "already full up", is in fact "bursting at the seams" due to an influx of foreigners. "Our cities are overcrowded", UKIP asserts, "our roads clogged up and our railways are grinding to a halt. Our doctors’ surgeries cannot cope and the hospital waiting lists are growing. New housing estates are covering the countryside. In 2002, the UK government allowed in another 200,000 people. The UK Independence Party will put an end to mass immigration." The cover of UKIP’s manifesto features three white babies with the slogan: "Concerned about their future? This is their country, make sure it stays that way."

Of course, UKIP repeatedly and indignantly denies that it is a racist party. But it combines this with an equally fervent denunciation of political correctness, which it claims prevents an honest debate on issues of race and immigration. In practice, this means that UKIP persistently plays the race card while claiming that it is merely exercising freedom of speech. Its website quotes a UKIP member as saying: "I am no racist, but I am prepared to have a discussion about how things like immigration affect our country. I went to a Christian school where they were not scared to talk about the Empire and colonies and other races. You can’t say anything now because people will point their finger and cry ‘harassment’."
http://www.whatnextjournal.co.uk/pages/Back/WNext29/Ukip.html

I don't think there is much to unpack from this. UKIP's use of the euphemism is legend.

But there's more...

UKIP’s political character is demonstrated not just by its recruits but by its friends in the European Parliament, where it is part of a euro-sceptic alliance which includes the League of Polish Families, a Christian fundamentalist, anti-semitic organisation that attacks the EU as a plot by freemasonry against Christianity. One of its leading figures is historian Ryszard Bender of the Catholic University of Lublin, who has described Auschwitz as "not a death camp, but a labour camp. Jews, Gypsies and others were killed by hard labour, not always that hard and not always killed".

UKIP claims that it isn't a "racist party" but it is quite happy to ally itself with an anti-Semitic party. Please note the use of the word "Christian" here.

Hang on, there's more...

Another MEP, Nigel Farage, held discussions in 1997 with the British National Party’s Mark Deavin, a former student of UKIP founder Alan Sked. Deavin was the author of a document entitled `The Grand Plan: The Origins of Non-White Immigration’, which argued that "the mass immigration of non-Europeans into every White country on earth" had been engineered by "a homogeneous transatlantic political and financial elite to destroy the national identities and create a raceless new world order". The plan was, Deavin wrote, "Jewish in origin". Farage wouldn’t have felt entirely out of place in such company. Sked, who left the party in 1997, in part because he believed it was being taken over by "extremists", has recalled an argument with Farage over the inclusion of a statement on the party’s membership form opposing discrimination against minorities. "We will never win the nigger vote", Farage told him. "The nig-nogs will never vote for us."

So Farage and his gang went out and wooed Rusty Lee into becomingtheir only black candidate...and she's a few shillings short of a pound too. Well, you'd have to be! :D

UKIP's only black executive received death threats from party members.

The only black executive within the UK Independence Party (Ukip) has received a telephone death threat in which several men threatened to kill him, allegedly on the orders of a senior executive of the party.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3215362.ece


I doubt many potential UKIP voters will be upset that UKIP MEPs aren't working hard in Brussels for the success of the EU.

Which begs the question: if they hate Europe and the EU so much, why did they take their seats and their salaries?
 
By way of some kind of information, this Thursday just gone, a by-election in Salford (turnout, about 17%)

Labour 606 (37.6%)
Liberal Democrats 293 (18.2%)
British National Party 276 (17.1%)
Conservative 189 (11.7%)
Green 125 (7.8%)
UKIP 123 (7.6%)

Labour vote rose on a falling turnot. odd.

edit: sorry, no it didn't rise - the BNP was the only one that rose.
 
But then UKIP does have only one MP, and he hardly counts.

Quite, in fact, Bob Spink is so proud to represent UKIP at Westminster that he denies that he's a member. What's all that about?

He was deselected as a Conservative candidate in March 2008, and in April 2008 he defected to the United Kingdom Independence Party, becoming that party's first and only MP. In November 2008 he was redesignated as an Independent, on the grounds that UKIP had no 'whip'[1] and has since denied joining UKIP.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Spink
 
That's what it says on the label but the contents speak differently.

Quite right. Also, mustn't forget the UKIP line of women's rights:

Europe's 200 million women yesterday acquired a new champion in the form of the United Kingdom Independence party MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. "I want to deal with women's issues", he declared, "because I just don't think they clean behind the fridge enough."...

"No self-respecting small businessman with a brain in the right place would ever employ a lady of child-bearing age."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/jul/21/uk.gender

Fuck the Poujadist vermin - both they and and their thick, racist, ill informed fuckstain supporters can suck my sweaty balls.
 
...There has to be some reason this story broke when it did! It's been going on for years and years, yet it only hits the headlines now?
Because this is how long it took to pursue the Freedom of Information requests.

If the original FoI requests had resulted in the information being supplied, this would have blown up five years ago.

But it's taken this long because the case had to be pursued through the office of the information commissioner, and then through the courts. At any time in the process the government/fees office could have handed over the information. But they didn't.

As far as it being a conspiracy theory, a lot of the control over when the information came out rested with the Labour government, speaker and the fees office.

It's my understanding that the information was leaked prior to publishing in July because the information that was due to be published in July was going to be redacted, full information was not going to be published.

But because the information had been collated in order to prepare for the publishing of the redacted records in July, it meant that the information was in an easily accessible and readable format.

Before, say, two, three or four years ago, all that information wouldn't have been in an easily accessible or readable format, because there were no plans at that stage to publish the information, in fact the plan was to maintain secrecy and privacy and not to publish the information, and they went to great lengths and expense to prevent it.

It's just a matter of serendipitous timing that the information was collated in readiness for publishing, and someone took offence that the information due to be published wasn't going to be redacted.

Yes, leaking and publishing may have been politically motivated (although tbh, all parties have had skeletons in the closets), but the timing issue was due to it being the end of a five year plus process started by the investigative journalist Heather Brooke, it was because of her long-drawn out battle relating to FoI (and she's known for FoI cases), enabled other parties to capitalise on her groundwork.

Brooke did all the groundwork, other people who may or may not have had a political axe to grind have benefited from her hard work. But those third parties have only been able to do what they did at the time that they have, because of her longstanding FoI campaign.
 
butchersapron said:
Here's something that may have an effect - Nigel Farage UKIP leader has had £2 million in expenses from Europe over 10 years - according to Dennis Macshane on the Daily Politics Show (Farage now confirms this). This comes after UKIP MEPS being done for fraud and money laundering and should allow the other small parties a good 'in' to publically lump him/them in with the others pigs - whether you regard 200 grand a year as excessive or not.

This information should be circulated as widely as possible.

Just saw a bill board for UKIP which had a huge picture of Winston Churchill giving his victory salute alongside the slogan "It's time to regain control of our borders". The implication is obvious: immigrants are like totally teh new nartzis. Vile racists - they're running on a platform of a five year freeze on all immigration into the UK and they want out of the European Convention on Human Rights. It was these scumbags that invited Geert Wilders to the House of Lords, Farage defended Carol Thatcher's gollywog comments and their website is chocca with "PC gone mad" type articles.

They are odious libertarian Thatcherite racists who are corrupt to the core, they're hardly any better than the Strasserites of the BNP.

Finally a national paper picks up on this 5 days late. I wonder if they'll follow up on the buried report on MEPs expenses as well.
 
Finally a national paper picks up on this 5 days late. I wonder if they'll follow up on the buried report on MEPs expenses as well.

On the grounds that to butcher UKIP now would be in the BNP`s interests, I doubt the media will make much of this. The telegraph are subtly pushing people UKIP's way, as a way to reform the tories in a rightward direction, so are not going to mess things up for UKIP now
 
The express did a poll in the NW constituency of Salford, Blears seat (and where there was a by-election last week):

BNP - 38.4%
Labour - 19.2 %
Tories 13.4 %
Liberal Democrats - 10.7%
Greens - 7.1%
UK Independent Party 7.1%

Now that's clearly bonkers, but is it more bonkers than the poll which has them on 1%? The Express gives no deatils of the poll other than saying it ws based on 500 people and that's it!
 
There's been a lot of inconsistent polls - lots of early ones suggesting that the BNP were benefitting more than UKIP and the Greens, then a load saying the opposite. The results mostly seem to suit the organisation commissioning them and/or the story they're quoted in. This happened before the mayoral elections too - and it turned out that the weight the Evening Standard gave to the suburbs was a more accurate reflection of turnout on the day.

The BNP will probably do well, but it's hard to know how well.
 
New ICM poll a week after their one that had the BNP on 1%

CON 29%(-1),
LAB 17%(-7),
LDEM 20%(+2),
UKIP 10%(nc),
Green 11%(+1),
BNP 5%(+4)

Populus also released one yesterday:

CON 30%(-4),
LAB 16%(-9),
LDEM 12%(-8),
UKIP 19%(+13!),
Green 10%(+5),
BNP 5%(+3)
 
Suprised how few people seem to be opting for the Lib dems at the moment. I guess there pro european stance wont help them much in the euro elections.
 
New ICM poll a week after their one that had the BNP on 1%

CON 29%(-1),
LAB 17%(-7),
LDEM 20%(+2),
UKIP 10%(nc),
Green 11%(+1),
BNP 5%(+4)

Populus also released one yesterday:

CON 30%(-4),
LAB 16%(-9),
LDEM 12%(-8),
UKIP 19%(+13!),
Green 10%(+5),
BNP 5%(+3)

these polls don't mean much - they don't need a universal 5% swing - if their support is running higher in target areas this could mean they do very well.
 
these polls don't mean much - they don't need a universal 5% swing - if their support is running higher in target areas this could mean they do very well.

Telegraphy YouGov poll today- signicicantly with a larger than average sampkle of 5,000, most samples are 1,000- 1,200 odd

European voting intention figures,
CON 27%
LAB 17%
UKIP 16%
LDEM 15%
Green 9%
BNP 7%
SNP & PC 4%
Others 6%

And as others have said, that 7% is a national, not regional vote, so, if true, read this as 9-10% in their strongest areas.
 
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