Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
wookey has some good points
to add: mums are ace - and you're doing your best and it is good enough
to add: mums are ace - and you're doing your best and it is good enough
Excluded- yet again
- Thread starter vauxhallmum
- Start date
vauxhallmum
had to scrap the cheap car
Wookey, only to say that I have told him that I will always love him whatever happens. It seems that I am not the best for him. I don't know why, I don't know where this came from and I don't know what else to do.
His dad believes that I caused it all. I am treading a fine line between just rolling over to his dad and doing the only thing I think can retrieve the situation. He seems more settled with his dad. He has anxiety around me and I don't know why. The more I try to reassure him the worse it becomes.
I am all out of ideas and am falling apart here. But I can possibly help myself whereas he can't.
His dad believes that I caused it all. I am treading a fine line between just rolling over to his dad and doing the only thing I think can retrieve the situation. He seems more settled with his dad. He has anxiety around me and I don't know why. The more I try to reassure him the worse it becomes.
I am all out of ideas and am falling apart here. But I can possibly help myself whereas he can't.
LilMissHissyFit
Disturbed in a pink bra
VM, I really wouldnt move out and hand him over to Dad, especially if Dad is levelling the 'blame' at you.
My eldest had the most awful behvioural probs, directed at me and her siblings before she attended her school. Really, I thought I was on the edge of giving her up to my parents, I wasnt coping either.
We fought for a specialist education for her and its worked, shes a different child, no longer violent and unmanageable ( although,like most teens she can be an utter nightmare at times- its now very normal) Your child doesnt have to go a state special school if that school wont meet their needs, there are now good schools in the private sector which you can get funding for. You really need to contact IPSEA and talk this through and also get in touch with a specialist education solicitor. I can give you the contact details for mine if you want to contact them ( they do legal aid and they work nationwide)
Please, try and take this all one step at a time, take time to regroup, look at your options educationally. Your son is probably a very scared and confused little boy underneath it all, although its very hard to see that through the distructive behaviour. If you leave him then its likely he will see that as "you have abandoned me because Im awful and terrible" not in the way you are trying to view it, as something which may help him.IM so glad we found the strength to keep on keeping on IYSWIM> IM sure Id have considered the same as you ( indeed I did in the form of my parents) but may well have gone ahead with something similar if my ex had been any sort of a father at all.... looking back it would have been the absolute worst thing I could have done.
Am I right in thinking your son doesnt even have a diagnosis of anything in particular? That needs sorting or you will never ever begin to get to the bottom of his behaviour... children dont behave like that for no reason when they have good suypportive parents like you and teachers who are doing their best to help unless theres something really wrong....
please, stick with it.
My eldest had the most awful behvioural probs, directed at me and her siblings before she attended her school. Really, I thought I was on the edge of giving her up to my parents, I wasnt coping either.
We fought for a specialist education for her and its worked, shes a different child, no longer violent and unmanageable ( although,like most teens she can be an utter nightmare at times- its now very normal) Your child doesnt have to go a state special school if that school wont meet their needs, there are now good schools in the private sector which you can get funding for. You really need to contact IPSEA and talk this through and also get in touch with a specialist education solicitor. I can give you the contact details for mine if you want to contact them ( they do legal aid and they work nationwide)
Please, try and take this all one step at a time, take time to regroup, look at your options educationally. Your son is probably a very scared and confused little boy underneath it all, although its very hard to see that through the distructive behaviour. If you leave him then its likely he will see that as "you have abandoned me because Im awful and terrible" not in the way you are trying to view it, as something which may help him.IM so glad we found the strength to keep on keeping on IYSWIM> IM sure Id have considered the same as you ( indeed I did in the form of my parents) but may well have gone ahead with something similar if my ex had been any sort of a father at all.... looking back it would have been the absolute worst thing I could have done.
Am I right in thinking your son doesnt even have a diagnosis of anything in particular? That needs sorting or you will never ever begin to get to the bottom of his behaviour... children dont behave like that for no reason when they have good suypportive parents like you and teachers who are doing their best to help unless theres something really wrong....
please, stick with it.
vauxhallmum
had to scrap the cheap car
The ex is a very good Dad and I wouldn't ever deny it.
If our son constantly clashes with me and not with his dad, what am I to think?
We've had alot of nasty family therapy to get me to this point. I could see it as giving in or handing it over for the short term.
He's had a diagnosis of ADHD but me and his dad and most of the other professionals around him dispute that. I agree it needs further investigation but we totally lost faith in Lambeth CAMHS, tbh. I'm trying other avenues to make sure that if he did get a diagnosis, then medication wouldn't be the only option, as it was previously.
It's bollocks and madness, I realise that. But I have to concede that I am no longer the best thing for my child.
If our son constantly clashes with me and not with his dad, what am I to think?
We've had alot of nasty family therapy to get me to this point. I could see it as giving in or handing it over for the short term.
He's had a diagnosis of ADHD but me and his dad and most of the other professionals around him dispute that. I agree it needs further investigation but we totally lost faith in Lambeth CAMHS, tbh. I'm trying other avenues to make sure that if he did get a diagnosis, then medication wouldn't be the only option, as it was previously.
It's bollocks and madness, I realise that. But I have to concede that I am no longer the best thing for my child.
LilMissHissyFit
Disturbed in a pink bra
Or could it be that you clash with him because its you doing the day to day care.... and he might clash with anyone who was doing the day in day out hard work and looking after him, setting boundaries and doing their best to help him with his behaviour?
I think you are being extraordinarily hard on yourself, I understand why, Ive been there. Its only now I can look back and see how I was wrong in my thinking...I know you are probably thinking" yes its easy for you to sit there and say Oh yeah now you look back, you arent me etc" but really.... Get in touch with a solicitor, some people who arent connected with the state agencies (whos agenda is to make you feel like an utter piece of scum rather than really do something to help because it costs money and is hard work for them- been there and had them do that to me too)
It wasnt until I contacted my solicitor and explained it all that suddenly i realised I wasnt at fault, they had a duty to help us and werent, my child had a right to the correct education.... Yours hasnt got it, dont discount the absolutely all consuming effect that can have on your family..
I think you are being extraordinarily hard on yourself, I understand why, Ive been there. Its only now I can look back and see how I was wrong in my thinking...I know you are probably thinking" yes its easy for you to sit there and say Oh yeah now you look back, you arent me etc" but really.... Get in touch with a solicitor, some people who arent connected with the state agencies (whos agenda is to make you feel like an utter piece of scum rather than really do something to help because it costs money and is hard work for them- been there and had them do that to me too)
It wasnt until I contacted my solicitor and explained it all that suddenly i realised I wasnt at fault, they had a duty to help us and werent, my child had a right to the correct education.... Yours hasnt got it, dont discount the absolutely all consuming effect that can have on your family..
kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
Good posts Wookey and LMHF.
VM are you getting any support around how you feel and parenting your son? Parenting can be so hard on so many levels.
This might help if you haven't checked them out already: http://www.parentlineplus.org.uk/
It might be helpful and inspiring to you to be able to talk to other parents, whose children are going through similar stuff and to help you deal with your anxiety around the issue (if you haven't already)
I really hope it works out for you and your son (((((VM))))
VM are you getting any support around how you feel and parenting your son? Parenting can be so hard on so many levels.
This might help if you haven't checked them out already: http://www.parentlineplus.org.uk/
It might be helpful and inspiring to you to be able to talk to other parents, whose children are going through similar stuff and to help you deal with your anxiety around the issue (if you haven't already)
I really hope it works out for you and your son (((((VM))))
vauxhallmum
had to scrap the cheap car
Lil Miss, yes please. I'll take any help going. Thank you, you are always a wise ear.
LilMissHissyFit
Disturbed in a pink bra
already done.......Im sat here with tears in my eyes for you, I WAS you 2 years ago.
Please please dont do anything hasty... Pm me for my number if you want.
I can call you back
Please please dont do anything hasty... Pm me for my number if you want.
I can call you back
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
You've gone through lots of stuff as a parent and as a family. Its stuff that we don't know about and I see a bit of self criticism sometimes hiding in what you are posting about this. However,me and everybody else on here can see that you love your son and that you'll give it a real go, whatever arrangement you come up with. In the end, that's what its all about.
scifisam
deleted
I did wonder that too.
@Vauxhall Mum: when were you planning on making the move? Soon? It might be better to wait a while - a couple of months - so that he doesn't associate the move so strongly with him being excluded from school. And perhaps, over the Summer, trial a couple of 'holidays' where he stays full-time with his Dad and you go away somewhere. Though that still wouldn't be the same, if his Dad doesn't have to deal with school during that time.
I'd agree with LMH about not doing anything hasty. That doesn't mean that you're not right about it being the best thing for you to switch care with your ex; you know your son best.
BTW, my friend's son who is better-behaved for me and my partner is also better behaved for his Dad, but even he admits that he would not make a better full-time parent. It's easier for him to be hyperstrict, because he doesn't have to do that all the time - it wears you down. It's easy for him to at the same time be more flexible about some things like bedtime and waking up time, because he doesn't deal with school. The Dad knows full well that he'd go insane if he had his son full-time, and respects his ex for not doing so (though, actually, she has ended up on medication for stress and depression, and lost her job due to having to take so much time off work for temporary exclusions and so on).
Every situation is different, of course. Not sure why I'm posting this one up - just as an example, I guess.
LilMissHissyFit
Disturbed in a pink bra
I agree with the holiday thing too. Could Dad give you some respite by coming to stay at yours for a week while you go to his or away somewhere?
My parents taking my DD away for a week at the time I was at breaking point helped save things for me and helped me realise I could do it, I was just exhausted, we all were and in that time both of us and her brother and sister managed to reharge our batteries a bit ( and they got the attention they needed and werent getting)
Sometimes taking a step back and having a breather from each other is essential. Does your son have a social worker? I know they are hard to obtain but a friend I have who has a son who sounds like yorus ( eventually diagnosed with a form of autism) managed to get a SW and respite care a couple of days/evenings a week ( an hoursly allowance used flexibly)... its worth asking about.
My parents taking my DD away for a week at the time I was at breaking point helped save things for me and helped me realise I could do it, I was just exhausted, we all were and in that time both of us and her brother and sister managed to reharge our batteries a bit ( and they got the attention they needed and werent getting)
Sometimes taking a step back and having a breather from each other is essential. Does your son have a social worker? I know they are hard to obtain but a friend I have who has a son who sounds like yorus ( eventually diagnosed with a form of autism) managed to get a SW and respite care a couple of days/evenings a week ( an hoursly allowance used flexibly)... its worth asking about.
vauxhallmum
had to scrap the cheap car
Self criticism, yes probably as I have lost some confidence over the years. i think constant bashing your head against a wall does that to you.
However, to clear it up. I think my son has a problem and while I don't believe I am the cause of that problem, I don't think I have dealt with it as well as I could have done. I need help for that.
His father has blamed me in the past but I could not have clearer with him at explaining what I have said above. And today, I think he realised that.
We may not get on, but who gives a fuck about that when we both have our son's wellbeing at heart?
However, to clear it up. I think my son has a problem and while I don't believe I am the cause of that problem, I don't think I have dealt with it as well as I could have done. I need help for that.
His father has blamed me in the past but I could not have clearer with him at explaining what I have said above. And today, I think he realised that.
We may not get on, but who gives a fuck about that when we both have our son's wellbeing at heart?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Sorry to hear that... sounds rough.
I'm sure your son will get the message though, and that's what it's all about, right?
Treacle Toes
Time
_angel_
.
I hope you find the best school out there for your son (whether it's mainstream or special needs) There are mainstream schools that are resourced for special needs now, maybe there's an inbetween option.
I know how you feel with difficult sons atm been having similar problems, but having to deal with it on your own is shit. You need some support.
I know how you feel with difficult sons atm been having similar problems, but having to deal with it on your own is shit. You need some support.
LilMissHissyFit
Disturbed in a pink bra
What message?
presumably the one PK thinks will turn him into a calm, biddable child overnight...
PK VMboy has SEN and challenging behaviour, hes not just beiong difficult for the sake of it or 'naughty'
IMO he needs to know hes loved, cared for, getting what he needs ( educationally especially) and VM is doing her absolute best to give him that...
ozrictentgal
is a pheasant plucker
Hi Vm, another single mum here who has been through similar probs with my sons.
Lots of excellnt advice here but just wanted to say there are others here [as you can see] who have been through this too and come out the other side ok. So at the least you dont have to feel alone
Try not to beat yourself up about it, your son obviously has some challenging behaviours and im sure you are doing the very best you can.
Plus all the good advice given, I would suggest contacting your local area education office. In my sons case the sch [middle] were building a case to have him permanently excluded.
I found support and help from the Social Inclusion coordinators invaluable, they called in the Behaviour support services [BSS] who visited my son at sch and set up specific paths the sch had to follow when dealing with my sons challenging behaviours. This encouraged them not to just reach for the exclusion button every time there was a problem.
This really made the sch pull their socks up! All of a sudden the atmosphere changed when they realised they were being watched and made accountable.
I also built my own case against them, by detailing in a long letter the many ways in which the school had not followed through with support they had promised in support plans. I sent this letter along with my concerns to the chief education officer at our LEA, the school and my sons psychiatrist. Just to let the school know I wasnt going to be pushed around by them without letting other agencies know how they were behaving and ruining my sons education.
Basically they are pushing you around by excluding him all the time, you need to push back and get the support who will push with and for you.
As I said ive been through it, my youngest is now at upper sch and is already doing his GCSEs, the support has continued because the BSS helped push through his staement of special needs, this is imperative as it enshrines in law the procedures that the sch must follow in supporting your son.
Has anyone mentioned statementing him? [statement of special needs]
Has anyone mentioned what these "special schools" may be, do they mean Pupil Referral units [PRUs]?
Sorry for all the questions! I just know how down you must be feeling and really want to help in any way if I can...
Lots of excellnt advice here but just wanted to say there are others here [as you can see] who have been through this too and come out the other side ok. So at the least you dont have to feel alone
Try not to beat yourself up about it, your son obviously has some challenging behaviours and im sure you are doing the very best you can.
Plus all the good advice given, I would suggest contacting your local area education office. In my sons case the sch [middle] were building a case to have him permanently excluded.
I found support and help from the Social Inclusion coordinators invaluable, they called in the Behaviour support services [BSS] who visited my son at sch and set up specific paths the sch had to follow when dealing with my sons challenging behaviours. This encouraged them not to just reach for the exclusion button every time there was a problem.
This really made the sch pull their socks up! All of a sudden the atmosphere changed when they realised they were being watched and made accountable.
I also built my own case against them, by detailing in a long letter the many ways in which the school had not followed through with support they had promised in support plans. I sent this letter along with my concerns to the chief education officer at our LEA, the school and my sons psychiatrist. Just to let the school know I wasnt going to be pushed around by them without letting other agencies know how they were behaving and ruining my sons education.
Basically they are pushing you around by excluding him all the time, you need to push back and get the support who will push with and for you.
As I said ive been through it, my youngest is now at upper sch and is already doing his GCSEs, the support has continued because the BSS helped push through his staement of special needs, this is imperative as it enshrines in law the procedures that the sch must follow in supporting your son.
Has anyone mentioned statementing him? [statement of special needs]
Has anyone mentioned what these "special schools" may be, do they mean Pupil Referral units [PRUs]?
Sorry for all the questions! I just know how down you must be feeling and really want to help in any way if I can...
vauxhallmum
had to scrap the cheap car
He's got a Statement with 20 hours ( alot ) of funding for extra support detailed in it. He got that at 3 years old which is also very unusual.
Much good it's done him so far, though.
He was at a Pupil Referral Unit after the last time he was excluded from mainstream and I suppose it is inevitable that he will have to go back there, at least before we know what our options are. It's not too bad a place and they do have good strategies for managing behaviour. Though it is a bit boot camp.
No one from my Local Authority has ever mentioned Special School. I suppose it's not in their interests to admit that their own mainstream schools can't cope.
I am checking it out on my own. Maybe the LA will be more helpful this time, given that they know I am not afraid of moving legally if I have to.
I am not holding my breath.
Much good it's done him so far, though.
He was at a Pupil Referral Unit after the last time he was excluded from mainstream and I suppose it is inevitable that he will have to go back there, at least before we know what our options are. It's not too bad a place and they do have good strategies for managing behaviour. Though it is a bit boot camp.
No one from my Local Authority has ever mentioned Special School. I suppose it's not in their interests to admit that their own mainstream schools can't cope.
I am checking it out on my own. Maybe the LA will be more helpful this time, given that they know I am not afraid of moving legally if I have to.
I am not holding my breath.
ozrictentgal
is a pheasant plucker
Oh boy you do sound down [[[[[[VM]]]]]] chin up hey, theres always something that can be done
Hmmm, 20 hrs is very good, my son only got 4
So what are they doing with that 20 hrs? Has he got a behaviour management plan? Do the school have you in for regular reviews and to let you know how things are progressing?
My sons school and i have come to this agreement that if his day is deteriorating he just comes home early, in fact they just rang to say that till the end of term he will be coming home early on Mon and wed, so as to avoid any probs. Its not ideal but its been the best way to keep him in mainstream, with his friends learning the social skills that he really needs. My worries were that in a PRU he would miss out on this important interaction with "normal" children.
He also takes Equasym for his hyperactivity, which I know is controversial but works for him.
What are the SENco team like at school, onside or making life difficult?
If he was at a PRU before, the they should now work with you to help keep him in school. After all they have precious resources to protect
I suspect things are run differently out here in Suffolk-land, although suffolk are notorious re their SEnco provision, so it is hard to suggest exactly what to do, but if you have tried and tried and are getting nowhere then I understand why you are looking at letting him live with his dad for a bit. Many is the time I nearly got in the car and just ran away
Good luck with the LEA, try to find a sympathetic soul, they do still exist honest!
Hmmm, 20 hrs is very good, my son only got 4
So what are they doing with that 20 hrs? Has he got a behaviour management plan? Do the school have you in for regular reviews and to let you know how things are progressing?
My sons school and i have come to this agreement that if his day is deteriorating he just comes home early, in fact they just rang to say that till the end of term he will be coming home early on Mon and wed, so as to avoid any probs. Its not ideal but its been the best way to keep him in mainstream, with his friends learning the social skills that he really needs. My worries were that in a PRU he would miss out on this important interaction with "normal" children.
He also takes Equasym for his hyperactivity, which I know is controversial but works for him.
What are the SENco team like at school, onside or making life difficult?
If he was at a PRU before, the they should now work with you to help keep him in school. After all they have precious resources to protect
I suspect things are run differently out here in Suffolk-land, although suffolk are notorious re their SEnco provision, so it is hard to suggest exactly what to do, but if you have tried and tried and are getting nowhere then I understand why you are looking at letting him live with his dad for a bit. Many is the time I nearly got in the car and just ran away
Good luck with the LEA, try to find a sympathetic soul, they do still exist honest!
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
OK I'm presuming that this is a permanent exclusion. It seems to me, although I don't know the school or the child, that this school isn't meeting his needs. I also notice that you live in Lambeth which I have to say doesn't bode well from my experience as someone who has worked since 1982 with SEN kids of all kinds in Lambeth until fairly recently. Lambeth are not what I'd call a shining example of best practice in this area.
The main problem since inclusion into mainstream schools happened, is that a lot of really good special needs provision has closed and the fact is mainstream school does not fit all children and some children do not fit mainstream. This is bad for the children with SEN, and it's sometimes bad for the mainstream kids too. The main problem is lack of funding and understanding, and getting a statement to actually cover what the child needs.
I can't comment about the home arrangements other than no-one does what you're doing without very careful thought and no-one has a right to judge you, because frankly your family are the ones who know all the details and what people on the outside know about your situation could be scrawled in giant letters on a bottle-top.
The main problem since inclusion into mainstream schools happened, is that a lot of really good special needs provision has closed and the fact is mainstream school does not fit all children and some children do not fit mainstream. This is bad for the children with SEN, and it's sometimes bad for the mainstream kids too. The main problem is lack of funding and understanding, and getting a statement to actually cover what the child needs.
I can't comment about the home arrangements other than no-one does what you're doing without very careful thought and no-one has a right to judge you, because frankly your family are the ones who know all the details and what people on the outside know about your situation could be scrawled in giant letters on a bottle-top.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
I'm going to email someone who is a shining example of best practice from work tomorrow. Unfortunately he runs a school outside London so I can only get advice and maybe an idea of what you need to do next.
PM me with further details if you want.
Good Luck, and don't forget to look after yourself.
PM me with further details if you want.
Good Luck, and don't forget to look after yourself.
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
This is very true, but it's also clear to me that the person (VM's ex) who has suggested she hand over primary care duties is the same person who blames VM for causing these problems in not handling their son properly.
I just don't believe that is a fair accusation to level at VM knowing that her son has behavioural issues. I don't think I'd trust anyone's motives who said that to her, at this difficult time.
I think VM is also at a low ebb, and likely to believe such unfair accusations, and the 'solutions' that are presented to her.
That's what worries me.
LilMissHissyFit
Disturbed in a pink bra
^^^^^^^^^^^ Spot on... This is exactly my thoughts on it all which is why I have urged caution and no hastiness.....
Whatever VM eventually does will be absolutely with her sons best intentions in mind, I know this. However some caution and time to think and reflect once she's had time to discuss this with relevant people( not just with her ex or her friends etc... professionals and if possible take legal advice) can only be a good thing when shes clearly under extreme pressure and her son is definitely going to be feeling it all too.
Whatever VM eventually does will be absolutely with her sons best intentions in mind, I know this. However some caution and time to think and reflect once she's had time to discuss this with relevant people( not just with her ex or her friends etc... professionals and if possible take legal advice) can only be a good thing when shes clearly under extreme pressure and her son is definitely going to be feeling it all too.
vauxhallmum
had to scrap the cheap car
Thanks Wookey, I do appreciate your concern but don't worry, I'm still here and while I am down-I'm not out.
My history with Ex Mr VM is long and painful. However, I KNOW I didn't cause my sons problems and I believe he realises that too now.
I've got to balance my historical wariness of ex with the present needs of our son. I don't care what the ex gains from this arrangement, I only care that our son does. Obviously I will try to not react negatively all the time to the ex, but it is hard, given that he was such an out and out wanker. But then that was 4 years ago, so time to move on, no?
Still fighting. Will not go under.
My history with Ex Mr VM is long and painful. However, I KNOW I didn't cause my sons problems and I believe he realises that too now.
I've got to balance my historical wariness of ex with the present needs of our son. I don't care what the ex gains from this arrangement, I only care that our son does. Obviously I will try to not react negatively all the time to the ex, but it is hard, given that he was such an out and out wanker. But then that was 4 years ago, so time to move on, no?
Still fighting. Will not go under.
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
I completely agree, and I also agree that VMs motivations are clearly for her son's benefit. I just hope this big decision can be taken in the cold light of day rather than the heat of what's just happened, because my gut instinct is that VMs son needs his mum more than ever, and VM is a far better primary carer than she gives herself credit for - otherwise she wouldn't be here wringing her heart out.
LilMissHissyFit
Disturbed in a pink bra
I completely agree again... Ive been through this and having come out the other side I know the pressure shes under but dont feel relinquishing care of her child will do anything other than make a bad situation worse.. and thats coming as a mum who was about to do exactly the same, only to my parents rather than my ex....
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
Good.
Yup, time to move on, without doubt. And it's hard to forget that someone was such a wanker.
What kind of parent is he - has he been the full-time parent for your son before?
If he becomes the full-timer, what happens if your son's behaviour that has been targetted at you so far starts to be targetted at his dad?
vauxhallmum
had to scrap the cheap car
No heat of the moment. We are all still talking about this and while I think I am going to do it, I will need to work it all out properly first, for me and MrVM, who has 3 kids of his own to organise.
I've been signed off work for 2 weeks with stress, my boss is very understanding, I've decided not to fight the exclusion. So things are slowly becoming more clear. I will probably still wobble through this but at least I feel a bit more able to function now.
And VM boy seems to be holding it together quite well. Time will tell on that one, however.
I've been signed off work for 2 weeks with stress, my boss is very understanding, I've decided not to fight the exclusion. So things are slowly becoming more clear. I will probably still wobble through this but at least I feel a bit more able to function now.
And VM boy seems to be holding it together quite well. Time will tell on that one, however.
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
I think some time off work is a great idea.
I can't begin to imagine what something like this does to a parent. I think you're doing amazingly.
You're obviously thinking through all options, and I wouldn't want to say any more on a complex situation that I know little about. You tell us, what you think. It's your decision.
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