Examples of creative food product bullshit
- Thread starter Herbsman.
- Start date
only if its freshly made laptoplaptop said:The only way
you ever drunk 2 hour old black coffee? tastes like shite.
Herbsman. said:
Nooo...you could acheived the same effect by using less sugar AND ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS.
If you just used less sugar it wouldn't be as sweet, so sugar users WOULD notice the difference in taste.
The idea is that a teaspoon of this sugar tastes the same as a teaspoon of 'normal sugar' but you're actually consuming less sugar.
Obviously it's an attempt by sugar manufacturers to claw back some of the custom they'll have lost to the sugar-substitute market. But there is SOME point to it.
tbh, I used to be somewhat similar re: wookey about booze. I can't ever have enjoyed it, people who are drinking it don't really enjoy it, no-one enjoys the taste, it's filthy wrong, everyone's an addict, there are no recreational alcohol drinkers, etc, etc, etc. Goodness, some of it's even called 'bitter'!
Then I got over my polemics, stopped projecting quite so much, stopped making other people's minds up for them, remembered I had quite enjoyed it quite a lot of the time, and realised I was blatantly 2,600,496% wrong. And maybe it wasn't them who were being delusional all the time about their own experiences
e2a: and going by the 'everyone should drink it thick and black if they really like the flavour' argument, everyone who 'claims' to like garlic should go around chewing on raw cloves, and everyone who 'claims' to like meat should spend their spare time eating stock cubes
Otherwise they're quite clearly speaking baws
Then I got over my polemics, stopped projecting quite so much, stopped making other people's minds up for them, remembered I had quite enjoyed it quite a lot of the time, and realised I was blatantly 2,600,496% wrong. And maybe it wasn't them who were being delusional all the time about their own experiences
e2a: and going by the 'everyone should drink it thick and black if they really like the flavour' argument, everyone who 'claims' to like garlic should go around chewing on raw cloves, and everyone who 'claims' to like meat should spend their spare time eating stock cubes
Otherwise they're quite clearly speaking baws 
Herbsman.
Nah Lotion, Pet, Nor Powder.
Nope that's completely different. Cheese is not made up of just one type of molecule, whereas sugar is 100% sucrose.WouldBe said:You could apply that to other products as well. Low fat cheese - eat 1/2 an ounce instead of a full ounce.
I didn't say anything about the taste in the OP did I?beeboo said:
You obviously don't see what I'm getting at, but I can't be bothered to explain again.
PacificOcean
Unhinged User
Back to the OP.
Reduced Sugar Frosties.
Also better known as Cornflakes surely?
Reduced Sugar Frosties.
Also better known as Cornflakes surely?
Mrs Miggins
Eternal
Wookey said:
There's your problem right there! I've never tasted a decent cup of coffee made in a caffetiere. It ALWAYS tastes like shit from a caffetiere
Mrs Miggins - fucking loves proper espresso - with or without sugar as the mood takes her
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
mrs quoad said:tbh, I used to be somewhat similar re: wookey about booze. I can't ever have enjoyed it, people who are drinking it don't really enjoy it, no-one enjoys the taste, it's filthy wrong, everyone's an addict, there are no recreational alcohol drinkers, etc, etc, etc. Goodness, some of it's even called 'bitter'!
Then I got over my polemics, stopped projecting quite so much, stopped making other people's minds up for them, remembered I had quite enjoyed it quite a lot of the time, and realised I was blatantly 2,600,496% wrong. And maybe it wasn't them who were being delusional all the time about their own experiences
e2a: and going by the 'everyone should drink it thick and black if they really like the flavour' argument, everyone who 'claims' to like garlic should go around chewing on raw cloves, and everyone who 'claims' to like meat should spend their spare time eating stock cubes
You don't have any answers, Mrs Quoad, yet you regularly act as though you do. That's fine. Even though you have an ideology which states that ideologies are bad, the internal inconsistency of this is still fine. I'm not going to criticise whatever it was that got you clean, because it got you clean. But living each day as it comes is not how I want to live my life - I want to own my life lock, stock and barrel, not lease it from some internalised fear that I will always potentially be a victim because of who I am, rather than what I do.
That's what worked for me, and for millions like me. Please don't dismiss it so lightly, Mrs Quoad, or your open-minded, person-centred, 'life experience' recognition will start to sound a little hypocritical to me.
My life experience screams at me loud and clear that you are wrong. And you misguide people in your wrongness. Solemn gestures recognising people's life experiences don't work when you acknowledge the fact that most people are not self-aware, most don't know exactly why they become addicts. If they think they do have an idea, it's usually some half-baked unprovable nonsense provided by 'experts' like you, grounded in untestable theories, self-supporting logic that leads you nowhere, like a dot-to-dot with half the numbers missing.
People listened to my 'life experience' for far too long, and it stopped me from getting better. They prevented my recovery by convincing me that my recovery was somehow already deep inside me, I just had to find it. When would I find it? When things got bad enough to do something about. How could I get better, when I was made this way? They offered a life sentence, when what I needed was freedom.
I found my freedom, by the way. And it doesn't involve living each day as it comes. That's for addicts who feel out of control. I'm quite, quite certain of who I am and where I stand. You offer uncertainty, and that's not fair.
I thought at times that every single reason behind addiction could apply to me, apart from the most obvious - that some substances are addictive, and they're meant to be. Not everyone gets addicted to them, but nearly everyone is addicted to the idea that you benefit in some way from drugs (even though extra energy is always borrowed, relaxation is empty and unrewarding, supernatural insight is misleading, extra sociability is manufactured and unnatural, extra fun is hollow and disgenuine).
This delusion is at the heart of all drug addiction, the social pressure to believe in it is huge. The pressure not to challenge this way of thinking is huge (as you prove repeatedly). I think it's a lie, and it's one you perpetuate.
I like empowering people, and that means telling them when they're deluding themselves, and when they've fallen for a the self-perpetuating confidence trick that is the modern reply to drug addiction. I could couch it in inoffensive platitudes, trying hard to protect their dignity and their egos. But I don't think there is any dignity in believing false explanations and half-solutions. Quite the opposite, I think it's demeaning to individuals in the extreme. The most I can offer is another way of thinking that is not your way, not the NHS way, not the current vogue. It's another way. People can take or leave my opinion (I fully expect them to leave it, they're delusional don't forget, often thanks to ideologues like you) but I won't not say it, in the same way you wouldn't stop repeating your opinion just because I think it's bogus.
OK, let me get this down for the record:
Proper coffee - black, no sugar, bloody gorgeous.
Bitter (ie proper English beer) - bitter, bloody gorgeous
Cigarettes - bloody gorgeous.
I don't give a fuck why they are gorgeous - whether it's the addiction or whatever. They just are.
I also can't wait to get home for a spliff, so I can have some unrewarding, misleading, unnatural & hollow enjoyment.
Proper coffee - black, no sugar, bloody gorgeous.
Bitter (ie proper English beer) - bitter, bloody gorgeous
Cigarettes - bloody gorgeous.
I don't give a fuck why they are gorgeous - whether it's the addiction or whatever. They just are.
I also can't wait to get home for a spliff, so I can have some unrewarding, misleading, unnatural & hollow enjoyment.
Oh, lord.
Wookey - I'm really glad you've found something that works for you.
If your argument for coffee held, then people who liked garlic would be lying unless they went around eating raw garlic cloves. Screw ideology - that's the nub of it
I'm not interested in the ideological balls - either the stuff you're (almost entirely mistakenly) ascribing to me, or the stuff that you feel I need to hear. Keep on typing if it keeps you happy - but it's like superape says. Who cares? Make it complicated or just accept people are different
You've got something that works for you. Hurrah! I couldn't care less what it is Just please don't tell me you're right for me toooo
Wookey - I'm really glad you've found something that works for you.
If your argument for coffee held, then people who liked garlic would be lying unless they went around eating raw garlic cloves. Screw ideology - that's the nub of it
I'm not interested in the ideological balls - either the stuff you're (almost entirely mistakenly) ascribing to me, or the stuff that you feel I need to hear. Keep on typing if it keeps you happy - but it's like superape says. Who cares? Make it complicated or just accept people are different
You've got something that works for you. Hurrah! I couldn't care less what it is
Just please don't tell me you're right for me toooo 
Dj TAB
Mr Whippy
missfran said:
That's one viewpoint....
The other from the food-production industry side is to ask yourself what has been added to the product to make it taste good to customers after other percieved negative ingredients have been removed...
Most low-fat/sodium/sugar/carbohydrate etc etc foodstuffs have a proportionally higher percentage of additives to make up for whats been removed.
longdog
What is it you can't face?
Wookey said:People do only like coffee for it's addictive qualities. Coffee tastes like shit, that's why most people put sugar in, and the highest selling coffee in the country is a frothy latte. It's no accident that there are a thousand syrups and milks and sugars and chocolate powders to make coffee palatable. Bitter, astringent liquid will never be pleasurable for humans to drink. But the mental association of the taste accompanied by the drug is so strong that most people confuse the two.
You are the equivalent of people who smoke tar-free herbal cigarettes - they cannot get their head around the idea that the only reason they smoked fags was because they were addicted. The taste, the sensation, the smoke, the hand-to-mouth repetition are not, alone and in themselves, pleasurable to experience. The pleasure comes from filling up your nicotine.
Likewise coffee. Ask any addicted coffee drinker which is the best coffee of the day, and they will tell you 'The first one.' Just like smokers. The first one of the day is the one that most tops up your depleting levels of nicotine (or caffeine) therefore it's the biggest buzz, the most efficacious. It has more to do. The rest of the day is just topping up.
Of course, unless you're very open minded about your own opinion (and the way in which your brain can trick you into believing that the actions of a drug-addict are what you enjoy, rather than the simple act of topping up your drug levels) then you won't agree with me one bit. You'll keep on convincing yourself that you like the taste of coffee, in the same way most smokers are convinced of the lie that they enjoy the taste of burning leaves, or the sensation of asphyxiation as the smoke enters their lungs. They don't. They think they do. They are wrong (they are addicts, most addicts are deluded about their addictions to some degree).
Alcohol-free beer is another one. Beer doesn't taste good, it never did. It's just a way of getting pissed. Ask anyone what they honestly thought of the first lager or bitter they drank, and if they're honest they'll tell you it was foul. But all of a sudden, that same liquid tastes good? How come? Even big honest men will admit they prefer sweet drinks to bitter ones. Kids don't tend to like coffee either, and blow smoke in a kid's face and it will show you how 'nice' it tastes. Likewise kids and beer. I don't believe something happens to our tastebuds when we're 18 that suddenly make fags and beer and coffee taste good. That's just the most likely time to become addicted to them.
People try to isolate the taste of coffee, thinking that is what humans enjoy about it. Witness coffee revels - always the last ones left in the bag, aren't they? Even coffee drinkers don't like them. That's because they have very little caffeine in.
These are all addictive substances, and we learn the way to imbibe them; it takes practice to get to like it. But the 'like' you experience isn't genuine - and so aping that 'like' with herbal fags, caffeine-free coffee or alcohol-free beer is the height of self-delusion.
If you don't want a caffeine addiction, drink water. But that muck you are putting into your body has very few redeeming features (the most can be said is that it's mostly water) apart from allowing you to continue thinking you are having a treat, when what you are doing is re-playing your previous addiction to caffeine but without the sickly buzz.
It's an empty gesture, an echo of a fix you used to have but don't need anymore. You've successfully rejected a caffeine addiction - I would lovingly suggest you unhook yourself from the idea that you even need the taste of it.
That's full of all manner of wrong but then you knew I was going to say that.
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
mrs quoad said:Oh, lord.
Wookey - I'm really glad you've found something that works for you.
If your argument for coffee held, then people who liked garlic would be lying unless they went around eating raw garlic cloves. Screw ideology - that's the nub of it
I'm not interested in the ideological balls - either the stuff you're (almost entirely mistakenly) ascribing to me, or the stuff that you feel I need to hear. Keep on typing if it keeps you happy - but it's like superape says. Who cares? Make it complicated or just accept people are different
You've got something that works for you. Hurrah! I couldn't care less what it is
Caffeine is an addictive drug for pharmacological reasons. AFAIK, garlic isn't. The two don't compare. Most people don't become addicts, but that doesn't mean what they are taking ceases to be addictive. That's illogical, as well as chemically impossible.
Jesus works for some people, He stops them drinking and drugging and their faith in Him leads to a clean life. Their delusions keep them clean, but I still think they're deluded, and I wouldn't swap for the world.
I think recreational drinkers and drug users are delusional. We will never find truth and happiness in drink and drugs, nor even a version of it. Sometime dalliers with drugs buy into the myth of reward every time they imbibe, and they support the false assumption that kept me addicted for many years longer than I ever needed to be. I resent that in a way.
Most people live and die never having known this, but it doesn't mean they don't deserve to know.
You say you aren't interested in ideological balls, yet you perpetuate an ideology with every utterance you make. Accepting what I believe as one method among many is a tenet of that ideology. The fact that you believe in counselling, and call yourself a counsellor, is evidence that you subscribe to a certain ideology. The fact that you deny having an ideology, is yet another characteristic of your ideology - it allows you to pontificate safely and securely, hiding behind sacred cows like 'life experience' and 'emotions' - whilst never having to admit that you really are no closer to the truth than any of these people are themselves.
I really like you Mrs Quoad, your posts make me laugh a great deal, and that's worth it's weight in gold. So I'm a bit blue that you've tried in our first real, direct conversation to insult my intelligence with platitudes and smileys. Our views (what I've seen of yours posted here anyway) are in direct opposition, they cannot co-exist peacefully, because mine at least refuse to. In the same way my atheism cannot peacefully co-exist with deism; there will always be a tension, because they are mutually undermining. I won't shrug my shoulders and say 'To each their own' - because not only is it an intellectual cul-de-sac, but it subscribes to an ideology of acceptance which I find self-limiting, and ultimately self-defeating. It makes my core hurt. Life is so much huger than that, but some of us don't have our ears open yet, even though we stand there cupping them in our hand as though we do.
Living Herbs, from my local shop, are a case in point. In what way can you describe herbs as living, when from the moment you bring them home they start to die? They are Terminal Herbs. The participle suggests some form of continuity to me... I got some 'Living' Basil yesterday, barely had time to introduce it to the Bolognese before it had withered and crumpled, and turned sickly brown. Today it sits forlornly in a saucer of water, hanging its head almost as if to weep at the inaccuracy of the sticker which adorns its little pot. I paid 79p for a botanical suicide in my kitchen.
longdog
What is it you can't face?
Wookey said:
Now that's where we disagree.
I drink (occasionally) and take drugs (even more occasionally) because it makes me happy to do so. I've pretty much lost any affection for being stoned so I don't really bother with weed any more.
I like the feeling of being half pissed and I like the effects of MDMA, speed and mushrooms. If I didn't then I wouldn't do it. Sure it's a chemically induced version of 'happiness' but as long as I'm are aware of that then what's the problem? If I make an informed decision to alter my mood with drugs for my own pleasure how can that be wrong?
Addiction is a separate issue of course.
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
longdog said:
All happiness is chemically induced, remember. But the concept of looking for happiness in external chemicals, when we already have all the required material within us to be blissful and relaxed and content - with none of the side-effects of external chemicals, which are usually poisons - is I think really dangerous. Most people live and die and it never bothers them, but it's as if all drug users are standing on quick sand, some sinking faster than others. They're still all sinking. Even if they're waving happily at the shore, they're still sinking. They might die long before they start to suffocate - but they're still sinking on a false perception.
I don't want to sink, iyswim. I don't want a consciousness based on quicksand.
longdog
What is it you can't face?
Wookey said:
I think you're missing the point here Mr Wookey.
A lot of people, probably the vast majority take drugs not because they are unhappy and think the drugs will make them happy but because they enjoy the effects of the drug as a part of their perfectly happy life. The drugs are just one little bit of extra icing on the cake of life.
I think you're being a tad snobbish to honest and not giving people credit for making intelligent informed choices.
I can't see what people see in trainspotting to be honest but I wouldn't criticise them for their hobby and for a lot of people drugs are no more than that, a hobby. Sure they are poisons but then think of all of the other things people do to themselves which have the potential to harm them, riding a motorbike, skiing, climbing... the list is endless.
I'm not standing on quicksand because I like the occasional pill or wrap of speed. I'm enjoying life and all it has to offer, and that includes chemicals. There's no false perception there any more than there is for someone with a passion for fine wines, £100 cigars or fast cars.
Mood altering things:
CHOCOLATE
Pleasant things (inc. cushions and decaff )
Speed
Smack
Crack
Lettuce
Passionfruit
Exercise
Sugar
Food
LOVE
SEX
Caffeine
Driving at speed
Fear
Anger
Nicotine
Internet arguments
Teh Internets
Kittens
Arrogance
Hate
Human interactions
Sometimes... Sometimes maybe it's about a fear of being human. Anything less than perfect. "I've come from that. I never want to go back to being that." Therefore draw up black and white battle lines, man the stations and keep out all vague potential threats. I guess that were someone in that kinda place it could come across as arrogance too.
Any idea of an uncompromised, black-and-white, 'unaltered' human is an outstandingly arbitrary and false one. Whether or not one sees oneself as 'better' than others / 'unbedazzled' / 'more truth seeing' than those others.
CHOCOLATE
Pleasant things (inc. cushions and decaff
)Speed
Smack
Crack
Lettuce
Passionfruit
Exercise
Sugar
Food
LOVE
SEX
Caffeine
Driving at speed
Fear
Anger
Nicotine
Internet arguments
Teh Internets
Kittens
Arrogance
Hate
Human interactions
Sometimes... Sometimes maybe it's about a fear of being human. Anything less than perfect. "I've come from that. I never want to go back to being that." Therefore draw up black and white battle lines, man the stations and keep out all vague potential threats. I guess that were someone in that kinda place it could come across as arrogance too.
Any idea of an uncompromised, black-and-white, 'unaltered' human is an outstandingly arbitrary and false one. Whether or not one sees oneself as 'better' than others / 'unbedazzled' / 'more truth seeing' than those others.
