Evidence and Statistics!!!!

[ViolentPanda]

Your usual standard of logic......
I think its good there are more nurses. I dont think its good they are being poached from countries that need them. How does that make me a hypocrite you useless stuck up twat.....

Because you preach one thing and accept the other as the status quo, although you do a bit of whingeing and whining about it just to show you're "right on".

Thing is, while you piss and moan about us taking trained medics away from other countries, what's that other favourite policy of yours eh?

Yeah, that's right, you love tuition fees, don't you, you want to soak higher education, even though a bit of shuffling with the funding could encourage more "home-grown nurses, and even some more doctors.

Like I said, you're a hypocrite. and one who wouldn't know logic if it bit your wrinkly arse.

 

[tbaldwin]

Are nurses in H/E. VP or are you just talking shit again?

As a Socialist of course i'm against some people getting a lot more out of the education system than others. I dont love tuition fees but have nothing against them graduates earn far more than others why shouldnt they pay?
And i think anyone who is x private school should have to pay loads more....

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are nurses in H/E. VP or are you just talking shit again?

Mmm, lets see. General Nursing and most "in job" qualifications come under H/E and the degrees, diplomas and certificates are adminstrated and taught through the HE system. Yep, that means that pretty much any "home-grown" nurse has either been through H/E to become a nurse, or once qualified comes back under H/E every time they require a "career progression" qualification.

Talking shit? Nah. I leave that to you.

Perhaps you should pull your finger out of your arse and engage your brain sometime, balders.

As a Socialist of course i'm against some people getting a lot more out of the education system than others. I dont love tuition fees but have nothing against them graduates earn far more than others why shouldnt they pay?
And i think anyone who is x private school should have to pay loads more....

Tell you what, why don't you do a poll on here asking grads what their wages are.

Bearing in mind you can easily get info on the median, mean and average wages from loads of different sources (DfEE or ONS for example) you should be able to see whether grads actually do earn "far more", as you're contending.

Or maybe you won't do that because it might show your beliefs to be (to put it charitably) mistaken.

 

[tbaldwin]

You twat, read any stats on the wages of graduates and non graduates.......
What the fuck do you think its going to say?????????????

And when was nursing classed as H/E? And i'm hardly against training nurses as i think even you probably realise??? But then again i could be wrong....

 

[ViolentPanda]

You twat, read any stats on the wages of graduates and non graduates.......
What the fuck do you think its going to say?????????????

I know exactly what they say, you gibbering spunk-monkey.
They say that the gap between average wages for graduates and average wages for non-graduates have narrowed for the last 15 years or so.

Why, what did you think they said, that grads lived in a land of milk and honey, with hot and cold running sex and drugs?

And when was nursing classed as H/E? And i'm hardly against training nurses as i think even you probably realise??? But then again i could be wrong....

Since nursing was professionalised and a getting a degree in nursing became compulsory. It's been that way for (iirc) about 10 yrs now.

 

[tbaldwin]

I know exactly what they say, you gibbering spunk-monkey.
They say that the gap between average wages for graduates and average wages for non-graduates have narrowed for the last 15 years or so.

Typical of how a DOGMATIC TWAT uses stats.... The reason that the pay gap has narrowed is that there are far more graduates now...
People who years ago who would have never gone onto H/E are now getting degrees.....Despite tuition fees and all the hysterical shit talked about the effect they have......

 

[ViolentPanda]

Typical of how a DOGMATIC TWAT uses stats....

Typical tbaldwin calling people names and making unsubstantiated remarks.

The reason that the pay gap has narrowed is that there are far more graduates now...
People who years ago who would have never gone onto H/E are now getting degrees.....Despite tuition fees and all the hysterical shit talked about the effect they have......

Yeah, right.

How long did it take you to think that one up, balders?

And how does that explain people with good passes in mainstream "in demand" subjects being offered low wages with the excuse that "you don't have the job experience", and people with on-the-job experience being offered low wages "because you don't have a degree"?

 

[tbaldwin]

Typical tbaldwin calling people names and making unsubstantiated remarks.


Yeah, right.

How long did it take you to think that one up, balders?

And how does that explain people with good passes in mainstream "in demand" subjects being offered low wages with the excuse that "you don't have the job experience", and people with on-the-job experience being offered low wages "because you don't have a degree"?

It's obvious that with student numbers increasing so rapidly that differentials between gradauates would fall. As i think most people realise.

Of course your not most people.....
Your a very special type of person.
WELL READ,PRAGMATIC....A USELESS STUCK UP TWAT.....

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's obvious that with student numbers increasing so rapidly that differentials between gradauates would fall. As i think most people realise.

You're (unsurprsingly) conflating increasing student numbers with increasing amounts of graduates. Given the drop-out rates the two are nowhere near the same.

Of course your not most people.....
Your a very special type of person.
WELL READ,PRAGMATIC....A USELESS STUCK UP TWAT.....

Yeah, whatever you say balders, you tedious knobshine.

 

[tbaldwin]

You're (unsurprsingly) conflating increasing student numbers with increasing amounts of graduates. Given the drop-out rates the two are nowhere near the same.


Yeah, whatever you say balders, you tedious knobshine.

Yeah Yeah Yeah.. More student numbers hasnt led to more graduates then. Yeah Yeah Yeah.
I think you have just proved my point about how people use stats on U75.... You are talking such a load of wank as usual......

 

[William of Walworth]

Wotchoo bumping this for, eh?

I apologise. I got into this thread from a link in another one, and forgot to check the date of the last post ...

Hasn't helped I appreciate ...

Are you a creationist, mr baldwin? They're not too keen on evidence or statistics either ...

Just asking like

 

[William of Walworth]

So New Labour's policy around recruitment of nurses into the NHS is simultaneously sick and good? or are you using "sick" as a term of approval, like some of the younger folks do?

Nominates Pigeon for 'cool posters' thread ...

 

[tbaldwin]

I apologise. I got into this thread from a link in another one, and forgot to check the date of the last post ...

Hasn't helped I appreciate ...

Are you a creationist, mr baldwin? They're not too keen on evidence or statistics either ...

Just asking like

William, its not that im not keen on stats/evidence, its that i think a lot of so called stats evidence is complete bollocks. People make up stats all the time..
Vested groups Charities,Political and campaigning groups,the Public sector all make up stats....

 

[Pigeon]

You twat, read any stats on the wages of graduates and non graduates.......

Do WHAT???

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah Yeah Yeah.. More student numbers hasnt led to more graduates then. Yeah Yeah Yeah.

Showing your inability to read again are you?
I said that the higher numbers of new students wasn't reflected in the number of graduates because of the high drop out rate.
You know, where for example, student intake might have increased by 50% but the amount of graduates has only increased by 25%?
Simple really, if you've got half a brain.

I think you have just proved my point about how people use stats on U75.... You are talking such a load of wank as usual......

Nah, you've proved the point I keep making about you talking bollocks at any opportunity.

You're a charlatan. A nuLabour snakeoil salesman who can't win arguments with facts, so you rely on trying to overwhelm people with bullshit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do WHAT???

Apparently, according to balders, most graduates enjoy a massive pay differential over non-graduates, so they should be happy with paying tuition fees.

Oh, and apparently the fact that the gap between graduate and non-graduate pay is narrowing because of the massive increase in graduates, and is nothing to do with employers trying to have their cake and eat it.

He's nothing if not inconsistent, is he?

 

[Pigeon]

Apparently, according to balders, most graduates enjoy a massive pay differential over non-graduates, so they should be happy with paying tuition fees.

But what I'm having difficulty with is the statement about "reading the stats" about graduate wage levels, given that the premise of the thread- which balders started- is that stats are bobbins.

 

[tbaldwin]

It looks like your determined to prove my point,for some strange reason..

Of course with more students, pay differentials over non graduates is going to go down.
It doesnt take a genius to analyse that and why......
Kind of shows how a twat tries pathetically to use stats for their own end....
And graduates still earn far more than non graduates,which more than makes up for the cost of their tuition fees. Oh and loads,dont pay anyway... And you try going to the bank and get a loan at the rates,students can...

Oh and its no suprise that a STUCK UP TWAT Should be in favour of a privelleged group like H/E students getting more money......

 

[ViolentPanda]

It looks like your determined to prove my point,for some strange reason..

Of course with more students, pay differentials over non graduates is going to go down.
It doesnt take a genius to analyse that and why......

Which, by your own words, makes a nonsense of your earlier claim that "graduates earn far more than others".

Kind of shows how a twat tries pathetically to use stats for their own end....
And graduates still earn far more than non graduates,which more than makes up for the cost of their tuition fees. Oh and loads,dont pay anyway... And you try going to the bank and get a loan at the rates,students can...

Hey, I'm not the one contradicting himself balders, you are.

Oh and its no suprise that a STUCK UP TWAT Should be in favour of a privelleged group like H/E students getting more money......

Yeah yeah, go on, pile on the insults.

Always easy to tell when your arguments are thin, balders, the insults come more to the fore than usual.

For your info I went to a comp, and paid for my higher ed out of my own pocket, from money I saved up over years, not with money from the government, and not with any help from anyone else, and yet I don't begrudge other people getting assistance, so why do you?

Is it envy?

 

[Pigeon]

It looks like your determined to prove my point,for some strange reason..

Of course with more students, pay differentials over non graduates is going to go down.
It doesnt take a genius to analyse that and why......
Kind of shows how a twat tries pathetically to use stats for their own end....

Which, unless I'm mistaken, you're doing by quoting stats on numbers of people entering HE.

 

[Pigeon]

For your info I went to a comp, and paid for my higher ed out of my own pocket, from money I saved up over years, not with money from the government,

Oh, I never! I got quite a cushy little grant back in the day- AND I got Housing Benefit. Great, it was! Cheers, balders!

 

[tbaldwin]

Which, unless I'm mistaken, you're doing by quoting stats on numbers of people entering HE.

To simplify matters for you my feathered pest.... VP wants to use stats when it suits him to fit his prejudices.. But this set of stats totally contradicts his prejudices,so he tries to spin them ridiculously making himself look an even bigger twat than usual....
More Students leads to More Graduates..... Shock.... Suprise...
Leads to decrease in differentials in Graduate and Non Graduate pay....Big Shock and Suprise....

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I can only truly give the evidence of my own experiences and those of people i know. But in the end that is the best kind of evidence.

ignoring the rest of the bollocks

this is you reason for posting this ???

ffs so the worlds flat based on the "evidence" of your own experences too is it...

luddite assumptions based in flawed ego saturated logic...

quit while you are behind, eh?

 

[tbaldwin]

For your info I went to a comp, and paid for my higher ed out of my own pocket, from money I saved up over years, not with money from the government, and not with any help from anyone else, and yet I don't begrudge other people getting assistance, so why do you?

Is it envy?

I dont care where you went to School VP.. And your point re envy... Just shows what a Tory Twat you really are....
It's not ENVY.... Its about opposing privelleges...For a select minority..

Do you think Assisted School places is a good idea?

 

[ViolentPanda]

To simplify matters for you my feathered pest.... VP wants to use stats when it suits him to fit his prejudices.. But this set of stats totally contradicts his prejudices,so he tries to spin them ridiculously making himself look an even bigger twat than usual....
More Students leads to More Graduates..... Shock.... Suprise...
Leads to decrease in differentials in Graduate and Non Graduate pay....Big Shock and Suprise....

And yet, weirdly enough, if your scenario is to be believed, it's you that other posters think is trying to spin statistics for your own purposes.

Poor balders.

 

[tbaldwin]

And yet, weirdly enough, if your scenario is to be believed, it's you that other posters think is trying to spin statistics for your own purposes.

Poor balders.

Which would prove my point about how stupidly lots of people on U75 look at stats....

How many more graduates are there now compared to 1990 VP?
What is the average wage of graduates now and non graduates?

 

[bluestreak]

same old same old

 

[tbaldwin]

Bluestreak...? Another fine example of how H/E works?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I dont care where you went to School VP...

You'd have cared if I'd been to a private school though, wouldn't you? You'd have been able to indulge your spite to your heart's content then.

And your point re envy... Just shows what a Tory Twat you really are...

How does it do that, balders, or are you just ranting a load of old bollocks again?

It's not ENVY.... Its about opposing privelleges...For a select minority.

Do you think Assisted School places is a good idea?

How does making life harder for ALL students "oppose privilege"? If you want to "oppose privilege" then you remove the tax breaks that allow the old universities and priate schools to accrue massive financial reserves without paying tax on them, and/or make them use more of the money to fund bursaries.

Are you aware that potential university attendance by the w/c is actually dropping now (slowly but surely) because of the perception that you have to accrue enormous debts, even though that isn't actually the reality?

Seems to me like your opposition of privilege is having the opposite effect, w/c potential is being lost because people are scared of being saddled with a massive debt.

As for assisted places, I never agreed with it while it ran because it only benefitted a miniscule amount of people at a VERY high cost. Money that would have been better spent elsewhere.

 

[tbaldwin]

You'd have cared if I'd been to a private school though, wouldn't you? You'd have been able to indulge your spite to your heart's content then.

How does it do that, balders, or are you just ranting a load of old bollocks again?


How does making life harder for ALL students "oppose privilege"? If you want to "oppose privilege" then you remove the tax breaks that allow the old universities and priate schools to accrue massive financial reserves without paying tax on them, and/or make them use more of the money to fund bursaries.

Are you aware that potential university attendance by the w/c is actually dropping now (slowly but surely) because of the perception that you have to accrue enormous debts, even though that isn't actually the reality?

Seems to me like your opposition of privilege is having the opposite effect, w/c potential is being lost because people are scared of being saddled with a massive debt.

As for assisted places, I never agreed with it while it ran because it only benefitted a miniscule amount of people at a VERY high cost. Money that would have been better spent elsewhere.

LIES DAMNED LIES AND STATISTICS EH.
The amount of working class people going to college is going down is it??
From when by how much?

I'm consistent in arguing for a education system that allows everybody the same years of free education....Its kind of Socialist.....
Your consistent in supporting some people getting more free years....Its kind of Tory.....