Discussion in 'music, bands, clubs & festies' started by moody, Jul 29, 2019.
Ohh I must go to this. I might go on Friday actually.
watching the first bit and i'm thinking there's problems here.....
Dellers use of teenage Muslim women is trouble.
I wish I didn't have to write that post but I'm fully aware of the huge pressure from the right wing media being a BBC production.
It was a brave attempt to throw some ideas around. I disagree with some of it but it's really brought some contemporary history to life.
What are you on about?
Nobody "has to write a post"
Come out of the shadows and state your case.
I thought that the role of the Miner's Strike in setting the scene to acid house/rave was overdone. If anything it was more the general grimness, puritanism and brutality of Thatcher's Britain that it was a reaction to. The international context of the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall and Tiananmen, capitalism in victory mode and feeling confident enough to let its hair down et al was not mentioned. And of course the drugs was a big aspect that was skated over.
a couple more thoughts:
- i liked the point made about a return to the countryside away from urban centres. I can definitely relate to that. likewise about how legendary/mythical clubs that you never went to but heard tapes from or saw flyers from redrew peoples mental maps of the country. Meaningless town miles away now had a meaning and likeminded people to go with it. It made me feel connected to the rest of the country somehow. Still does tbh
Testament to that I met an urbanite id never met before on Friday who was from milton keynes - immediately started talking about the Sanctuary! And people did used to travel a lot to get to a party in a way they cant be arsed to now. To this day I feel connected to certain parts of Hertfordshire/Beds/A1 corridor, whilst Dungeness/Lydd feels like sacred ground because of World Dance (and to many others...partly why Dugs is putting on this massive thing at Lydd in October...I would love to go that but cant be arsed with the travel tbh!!). But in general it felt like abandoning city centres, especially so on the free party scene, but even for ticket buying suburban ravers like me. That prodigy picture cutting the rope bridge to escape the city etc -
-I think this film was originally made for the Frieze art fair 2018? It would explain the pretty low budget production values. I dont think there was TV money behind it.
It was obviously a good lecture as it has provoked thought and discussion
I have never been to a rave in my life (had quite enough of clubbing at various filthy northern venues in the 70s, when I also exhausted partying in fields, although MDMA and electronic music was not involved)...but may watch as I rather like Jeremy Deller (for obscure, personal reasons involving embroidery).
I didn't like the analysis, but I did like the clips (especially trying to spot my younger self).
The interview with Deller on 6 Music yesterday (MAH's show) was pretty good.
Having watched it all now I don't know either. Forget it.
Loved the old footage of sounds systems in Manchester playing early House. Not something that's really recognised.
You aren't making any sense. Why is it trouble?
I grew up in a Yorkshire mining town, got into house about ‘84/‘85 and then went to some of the clubs and raves mentioned much later on. I honestly never linked the two - miners strike and rave - the period during and immediately after was so grim, big influx of smack into our town and junkies on the estate. House music (rave came much later) came from our mates in the form of tapes - our mates who were cooler and a bit older than us and lived in Leeds or Manchester. Like the prog says the parties I remember were more someone emptying their house or flat out for the weekend, storing the furniture somewhere and bringing in a sound system instead. It grew out of post disco era ( we also listened to hip hop and northern soul). I still remember the soul boys sneering at us at Soul Weekenders because we were kids on the wrong drugs as far as they were concerned. I enjoyed the program, it brought it all back for me.
It was overdone, but it was interesting to think about and gave me another way of thinking about the scene.
I think you can definitely make the connection between the physical environment of factories and increasingly-postindustrial landscape of Detroit and Chicago >>> relentless machine music >>> loads of lyrics about Working It To The Bone >>> and that work energy and pressure the scene had in those early days...that does also echo somewhat with the UK experience - I don't think Jeremy is saying Miners lost their jobs and all the mining communities went raving a year later, its much more subtle and nebulous than that...
...its making a link between (increasingly ex) industrial cities (in the UK Manchester particularly had that i guess) and a factory-machine aesthetic that both the music and raving experience had in the 80s.
And then in the UK there was also the more bohemian escapism and back to nature element that in part came from the Ibiza experience and vibe. By the 80s London and NY are less factory-industrial cities and the vibe they brought was a bit less machine-driven for the majority I would say, especially as time went on and a city sound came together
As I've already said, the Miners connection point was best made with his Acid Brass project...those brass bands were working class communities that came together in an act of community building to play and enjoy music together, and the rave scene also had that element to it (amongst other things). Likewise with the Folk Archive project - raving is part of folk culture. Its totally correct to make that connection.
...and also the policing of the miners strike is relevant in regards battle of the beanfield, policing of the rave scene, tory family values and so forth.
I'm not being that clear but I think the general point is correct: these were all factors that were in the mix and combined to make the cake.
Good post - I think you are being clear, at least I totally get you.
While the programme was called '...An Incomplete History...' my interpretation of the programme is that what Deller's doing is art, rather than narrative history, & he very much puts his own interpretation on it. His work is around his own understanding of contemporary/recent past folk culture and how it meshes together.
I also thought the absence of any mention of drugs was strange, but my suspicion is that he was constrained by the morals of the school.
I enjoyed the programme, anyway.
I thought the 'Incomplete' bit was a very specific reference to the drugs.
I just found this great short documentary from 1997 called 'Rave' on the BFI website: Watch Rave - BFI Player
Hah watched that the other day....reminded me of our 23dom . Some good characters in there... The guy who hitches across Europe for one.
Not forgetting this 1994 Equinox classic. Plenty of analysis on mdma and appearances from Orbital and FSOL too. And narrated by Tom Baker
There's a really good French one out there called Modulations
Eta here it is!
it was interesting and entertaining. I though the school class context worked - the reactions of the young people really highlighted how different things were 30 years ago.
I though it was very much his own individual interpretation of the whole rave scene. I think the link with the miners strike was over done - and ignored the wider picture of a incenstant violence through out that period - miners and wapping, football hooliganism, aggro between youth subcultures, "battle of the beanfield", regular explosions of rioting in inner cities, violence at political demonstrations, northern ireland - and just the general likelihood of aggro when walking around any british town on a saturday night .
Also overlooked was the effect of the stringent licensing laws. Im most places if you wanted to go anywhere after 11pm it meant paying into a club - and the club would have bouncers, a dress code, beered up twats looking for a fight and very likely music you didn't';t care for (and outside of big cities there was nowhere else to go).
The rave thing was a marked contrast to that - it created a space where you could escape and be part of big loved up community of hedonism - and MDMA was a HUGE part of that - it was as important as the music in creating the nature of this cultural explosion - and it also meant booze hardly featured (i remember some reports saying that the brewery industry were extremely concerned about declining alcohol consumption amongst young people as a result of the rave scene).
Another factor was mass unemployment and the dole/squat counter culture it created - and how that fed into rave scene - in that there was a pre-existing cultural framework where it could take root.
Also notable was that the ibiza club scene was not mentioned once - despite it being considered central to the whole rave thing in most accounts.
One thing i took away was the thought that - is social media responsible for the relegation of pop music from its central role in youth culture?
Social media has become youth culture hasn't it? So probably yes.
Really good points. He did touch on clubs and clubbing culture and it's hard to know how much of his connections/ideas got edited out but I think I remember the young people commenting on the difference between the club scenes shown and the raves?
Again, this is where mdma really needed to feature...getting high was a component part of the scene...not getting paralletic, competative and fighty was the significant difference between the two scenes.
I went to a lot of free (at least for me) festivals - Windsor 1-3 and the dismal Watchfield, all the Albion fairs in the 70s, Barsham, Bungay , Hood, Megan, Elephant...which also started to include more music (WOMAD and so on)...so the being outside, in a field, dancing, with enthusiastic drug taking, was a continuation of a sort of DIY ethos which was already quite established before rave culture, with its particular musical tropes and MDMA. More than anything, I am a terrible dancer and the thought of doing it for hours and hours was just...well, not really on for this idler. I tended to avoid the interminable Ceilidghs which were a feature of Albion, too. However, rave was not really something new and unique, but was a progression...and when the scene moved indoors to the clubbing scene, with spendy entrance costs, well, I thought something essential had been lost. Squat parties, especially rural ones, held onto a similar DIY hardscrabble principle, but since my kids were going, obviously, I tended not to.
Ringing random secret phone numbers into the night and following convoys to find the rave felt unique to me.
And MDMA certainly did too.
I need to watch it before I bitch but needless to say free parties aren’t put on for free. You need money to do it from the off.
i only really ever studied the flyers but had so many I got from record shops - the commercial ones were too expensive and difficult to get to and i didn't know any older kids who knew about the 'free' parties - I grew up in Leeds and only rich grammar school kids had cars, so big parties in the countryside were a pipe dream until I went to Universe/Tribal Gathering in 92. Plus, we had The Orbit and The Warehouse, we didn't need anywhere else
The Orbit was class. Plus it had working toilets and a bar.
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