Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
I go through there on my bike all the time and you are patently deluded or dishonest
Eventual Outcome For Brixton High St?
- Thread starter El Jefe
- Start date
I go through there on my bike all the time and you are patently deluded or dishonest
ajdown
Posting in this thread
I have cyclists doing it time and time again, not just on Brixton High Street.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Probably the reason that nobody (apart from you) blames the cyclists is that it's such a transparently stupid thing to do. Of all the various types of road traffic that pass through Brixton, cyclists and pedestrians will be the most space-efficient by miles.
It's absolutely right that pedestrians (who nearly always vastly outnumber private car-drivers on the main stretch) should be given more space - and the only way that could be done is by cutting out a traffic lane. At the moment the (relatively small) number of private cars that go through use massively disproportionate space per person and utterly clog the road to buses. I'd close Brixton Rd to private cars from 7am -10.30am and 3.30pm -7.30pm. It wouldn't be problem solved, but certainly greatly alleviated, and at very little inconvenience to the overwhelming majority of Brixtonites (or anyone else really).
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
The only places they do that is in advanced stop lines and that's allowed. They delay traffic for mere seconds.
They don't do it at lights in my experience
ajdown
Posting in this thread
It's not "transparently stupid", it's just the political leanings round here tend to favour the tree-huggers.
If there was an adequate public transport system, people wouldn't need to use cars so much.
I use the bus, and most days have to stand, when I can eventually get on the bus, because there are young mothers with pushchairs taking up spaces who should be banned from travelling during the rush hour, and kids going to school that should have their own transport.
The other option, of course, would be to make parents send their kids to the nearest school, rather than miles to a 'good one'. Why not campaign to improve your local school, rather than leaving it to rot?
If there was an adequate public transport system, people wouldn't need to use cars so much.
I use the bus, and most days have to stand, when I can eventually get on the bus, because there are young mothers with pushchairs taking up spaces who should be banned from travelling during the rush hour, and kids going to school that should have their own transport.
The other option, of course, would be to make parents send their kids to the nearest school, rather than miles to a 'good one'. Why not campaign to improve your local school, rather than leaving it to rot?
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Mostly nonsense.
Because it's nonsense. You do get cyclists slowing up buses going up brixton hill when it isn't worth overtaking them to get to an impending bus stop. but not at the junctions at Brixton.
True. Don't know if it's 19 but it is a lot just now.
Quite probably true.
Agreed.
But most of the pedestrian overcrowding was down to people getting off buses or waiting for buses. Now they've narrowed the road there are less of these (at rush hour certainly) because they are getting off at the bus stop before. Indeed at the traffic lights before the bus stop before if the driver is kind enough to open the doors.
And I don't think it would 'greatly alleviate' the problem, as it wouldn't alter the fact that it is buses queuing to get to the bus stops that blocks the road to buses, then as a knock on effect of that, cars.
I guess we'll see once it's finished.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I agree that the bus "queues" made the problem worse, but the old pavements were ridiculous - a few feet wide yet carrying far more people than the yards given away to cars in 3 lanes of road. They had to be widened.
You may be right about not "greatly alleviating" the situation though - the space is too narrow for all the various demands. But I don't see any way of improving things that doesn't cut out private cars for at least part of the time; they are grossly inefficient users of public space and when there isn't enough of that space to go round it seems logical they should be the ones to go.
I doubt if any public body has the courage to try it though so we can expect semi-permanent blockage for buses for the forseeable future.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Incorrect. The suggestion that bicycles are responsible for the blocked up mess that is Brixton Rd from the Town Hall down to the Academy is indeed transparently stupid.
London's public transport system has its flaws but it's perfectly adequate for the sort of rush-hour commuting that really blocks Brixton Rd. The overwhelming majority of people who are blocking the road don't "need" to use cars at all - and they shouldn't be allowed to when it obstructs the massive majority of commuters and local people using alternative means of transport.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
When investment in public transport brings it up to a standard that allows people not to need their own cars, that's more likely to solve the issue than further attacking car users.
The congestion charge achieved nothing. All that money, and all the other taxes supposedly going towards improving public transport is going where?
I pay £1000 a year for a travelcard just to get to work, to be crammed in conditions that would be illegal if it were cattle, but somehow we're supposed to just put up with it when there are no real alternatives.
Sorting out all the traffic light sequencing that Ken fucked up would go a long way to helping traffic run smoother.
Whilst reducing the amount of traffic is a possible, but impractical, solution ... helping it to flow better would make more sense.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
Yet you seem quite keen on dismissing the needs of those who do have to use a car. My partner is disabled and walks with a stick, and I've almost had to physically yank people out of the 'less able to stand' seats on more than one occasion so she can sit down.
Why are you so against the rights of the individual to choose for themselves how they travel? Do you really know for sure that most of the people that are in cars don't have a better, cheaper or more reliable alternative to get to their place of work?
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Incorrect. I said "the overwhelming majority...[of car drivers]...don't need to use cars at all".
That means, those who don't need to, er, don't need to.
It says nothing at all about those who might actually need to use a car.
"Individual rights" are fine things but they are only timeless, eternal and untouchable when they are non-zero sum, ie when I can "have" that right and exercise it without infringing anybody else's equivilent right.
When resources are limited, "individual rights" become zero-sum; ie the more I have, the less you or somebody else has (eg your "right" to drive to work is removed by everybody else trying to do the same thing and blocking the road). In that situation it's clearly necessary to have collective solutions and the easiest (and I'd argue, the most morally just) way to that is to remove the least efficient resource-users - in this case private cars.
Why are you so unconcerned about the "individual rights" of bus-users?
ajdown
Posting in this thread
I'm not. I've already said pushchairs/prams should be banned during rushhour, and kids should have their own school transport instead of making commuter's journeys unpleasant.
Thankfully Boris has already tackled the alcohol problem with suitable legislation.
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Also, just look at the cars and count the number of people in them. Generally only one!
That's a lot of space being taken up on the road to get one person from A - B.
I agree that there should be a car ban through Brixton during peak times.
That's a lot of space being taken up on the road to get one person from A - B.
I agree that there should be a car ban through Brixton during peak times.
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
What alcohol problem?
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Thank Christ for that.
I've certainly noticed a massive, massive difference since that happened.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
lol
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
What problem?
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I travel on the bus at least twice a day, probably more, and I never encountered these 'acoholics'.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Why ON EARTH should people with pushchairs be banned at rush hour? How else do they get the child to nursery and themselves to work?
LOL at the choice YOU seem to demand for yourself whilst decreeing what everyone else should do.
Transport has to work for the whole community - not just YOU!
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Ha ha....what utter bollocks!
ajdown
Posting in this thread
People here are whining that cars take up a disproportionate amount of space on the road.
Pushchairs take up a disproportionate amount of space on the bus. You could fit 3 people into the space that one pushchair does, and they never ever fold them up as they're supposed to in busy times.
So... what's the difference?
The transport chaos is causing terrible problems for shops and businesses in Brixton.
Like it or not, lots of shops rely on people who park for a short while to pick something up, or spend an hour in Tesco car park and into wider Brixton. But everyone- drivers and bus users alike - are now avoiding travelling through Brixton if they can avoid it. The parking controls have all but done for the stretch of shops on Railton Rd, the new owner of the covered markets has driven out many traders with rent rises - and presumably the Grand Re-Development - of which street improvements were to be one small beginning - is now dead on it's feet?
Like it or not, lots of shops rely on people who park for a short while to pick something up, or spend an hour in Tesco car park and into wider Brixton. But everyone- drivers and bus users alike - are now avoiding travelling through Brixton if they can avoid it. The parking controls have all but done for the stretch of shops on Railton Rd, the new owner of the covered markets has driven out many traders with rent rises - and presumably the Grand Re-Development - of which street improvements were to be one small beginning - is now dead on it's feet?
Folding pushchiars is one thing - in your first post you were on about 'young mothers' and banning them.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
The problem is one and the same. Young mothers are invariably travelling with pushchairs and don't put them down. They also push to the front of the queue and expect everyone to move out of their way when they're the ones causing the congestion during the rushhour.
When was the last time you ever saw a folded up pushchair?
I've even seen people getting on with pushchairs full of bags of shopping - and no children in sight - expecting to be treated as if they should get priority because they fraudulently have a pushchair.
