Even The Brits Have Drug-War Loonies???

[fela fan]

Even if that is the case, the effect of cannabis use still has to be understood doesn't it? Or should we just leave people to their fate?

Fela - the state might have its own criminals, but it also has plenty of people dedicated to helping the vulnerable. The criminal underworld, your classic capitalist model, doesn't.

Yeah i know mate, my tongue was slightly in cheek.

As for leaving people to their fate, well, i think you've touched on one of the biggest connundrums facing humans. Do we help others, even if they don't want to be helped? At what stage does help become interference?

People help others, people ostensibly employed by the state. The state itself however, and whoever the actual people are that constitute the state, is nothing but a criminal interferer. The whole idea that one bunch of humans can put me in jail or legally have me killed (eg malaysia) for putting something that grows freely from the ground into my body is totally outrageous (and i hate that word, but it seems suitable here).

The whole idea of the state is a disgrace though, so not surprising.

 

[likesfish]

fela state exsists get over it.
the odd toke of a spliff now and again is not going to kill you
smaoking it constantly just makes your the most boring cunt on the planet and may well lead to the scizo ward

 

[fela fan]

fela state exsists get over it.

No mate, i'll never get over it. I will complain about it until i die.

 

[nino_savatte]

No mate, i'll never get over it. I will complain about it until i die.

No, you'll sit over in Thailand and pontificate and blow hot air as you always do...and tell us all how we share in Blair's culpability.

 

[Jo/Joe]

As for leaving people to their fate, well, i think you've touched on one of the biggest connundrums facing humans. Do we help others, even if they don't want to be helped? At what stage does help become interference?

Plenty of people want help, and you still need to understand how to do that, which means having a sensible, unbiased look at the effects of any drug.

 

[Streathamite]

Well.......I'd assummed that column is open to the general-public.

You're suggesting that the pro-drug-war folks feel too intimidated to offer their opinions? Or, is it possible that most o' them prefer sittin' in a bar/pub, rather than exercising their gray-matter?

errr....no, I'm suggesting that the majoroty of Brits are relatively sane on this issue

 

[fela fan]

No, you'll sit over in Thailand and pontificate and blow hot air as you always do...and tell us all how we share in Blair's culpability.

Yeah, what a fucking wanker i am eh?

 

[Streathamite]

It is now very obvious that a significant minority of cannabis smokers who started at an early age and used/use heavily have ended up with very serious mental health conditions at young ages. Far younger ages than was previously usual for these mental condition to happen.

substantiate please. with hard, solid evidence from credible sources.

 

[tobyjug]

substantiate please. with hard, solid evidence from credible sources.

These have already been referenced near the start of the thread.

 

[fela fan]

substantiate please. with hard, solid evidence from credible sources.

No, he wouldn't oblige before mate, but maybe that was due to my choice of language. Be interesting to see if he's capable of providing you with it.

 

[tobyjug]

No, he wouldn't oblige before mate, but maybe that was due to my choice of language. Be interesting to see if he's capable of providing you with it.

I can't help it if you will not read the material already referenced at the start of the thread.

 

[Jo/Joe]

I know of at least one person whose mental health was damaged by heavy cannabis use, so shall we stop pretending that something that can alter consciousness is harmless in any quantity? It won't turn anyone into Tony Blair.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah, what a fucking wanker i am eh?

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Self-praise is no recommendation.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yeah, what a fucking wanker i am eh?

You said it, pal.

 

[fela fan]

You said it, pal.

No shit mate. Must've been off my tits to say such a thing... fucking thai grass.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Fuck off, i'm not an idiot...

furthermore you'd best not get my name wrong if you're wanting to bandy about words like 'idiot' at others. Kind of makes you look a wee bit like one yourself mate.

Terribly sorry about that. You still exhibit the mental agility of a sloth on Ketamine.

 

[Streathamite]

These have already been referenced near the start of the thread.

if you mean the BMJ link - balls. That article itself states that it only exacerbates the problem - at worst - amongst those predisposed to suffer from it, and also says the picture is still unclear. and it does NOT state 'far younger ages" etc

 

[nino_savatte]

No shit mate. Must've been off my tits to say such a thing... fucking thai grass.

"Thai grass"? That figures. I'd wager you've hitting the mushrooms too by the tone of your posts.

 

[tobyjug]

if you mean the BMJ link - balls.

There is no need to use intemperate language, I assumed given the widespread discussion on the subject in health circles about this issue that the BMJ reference would include it. Three differing sets of research have come to the same conclusion abput early age use being a factor. Soem of the issues are featured here:-
http://www2.netdoctor.co.uk/news/index.asp?id=116713&D=2&M=12&Y=2004

 

[Streathamite]

yes, but it STILL points out - your link, and the BMJ one - that AT WORST it possibly only exacerbates the tendency towards psychosis etc amongst those who have that tendency. and they STILL point out the evidence is still unclear and inconclusive

 

[Jo/Joe]

Which is still evidence that cannabis is harmful.

 

[Streathamite]

it is inconclusive, unclear evidence that suggests it might be, for those vulnerable to psychosis, given certain other circumstances happening.
And as I have been smoking the stuff for 20 years, with nary a hint of ANY mentall illness - I trust my own body's signals first

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I think any arguments that drugs are "all good" or "all bad" are worrying tbh. A lot of substances, mind altering or not can be harmful if taken in excess. As someone who has worked with people for whom cannabis has triggered psychosis I find the whole "cannabis is 100% harmless" arguments as potentially damaging and unrealistic as the anti-cannabis arguments we've seen for years.

However, there are two debates here - is cannabis potentially damaging, and should it be legalised. While they are connected I don't think a complete no to the first is necessary to get a yes to the second.

The thing is though that even if cannabis can be harmful for some people then what makes it any different from that popular legal mind altering sustance, alcohol? We know alcohol can create dependence in people, can harm the liver to varying extents, can cause anti-social behaviour and in some unfortunate souls, cause things such as korsacoff's syndrome. The last time I had a debate on the legalisation of drugs with a friend (me for, her against) she pointed out that if alcohol was a new drug it would be made illegal, and she has a very good point.

So basically I think you can be pro-cannabis/legalisation, and still see it as a substance to be treated with care and as one that can act as a trigger of psychotic breakdown in a minority of people. In fact I think its a much better way of approaching the subject than the "it can't cause any harm at all" approach.

 

[tobyjug]

I think any arguments that drugs are "all good" or "all bad" are worrying tbh.

Basically there are no harmless substances including water and oxygen.

 

[Streathamite]

I think any arguments that drugs are "all good" or "all bad" are worrying tbh. A lot of substances, mind altering or not can be harmful if taken in excess. As someone who has worked with people for whom cannabis has triggered psychosis I find the whole "cannabis is 100% harmless" arguments as potentially damaging and unrealistic as the anti-cannabis arguments we've seen for years.

However, there are two debates here - is cannabis potentially damaging, and should it be legalised. While they are connected I don't think a complete no to the first is necessary to get a yes to the second.

The thing is though that even if cannabis can be harmful for some people then what makes it any different from that popular legal mind altering sustance, alcohol? We know alcohol can create dependence in people, can harm the liver to varying extents, can cause anti-social behaviour and in some unfortunate souls, cause things such as korsacoff's syndrome. The last time I had a debate on the legalisation of drugs with a friend (me for, her against) she pointed out that if alcohol was a new drug it would be made illegal, and she has a very good point.

So basically I think you can be pro-cannabis/legalisation, and still see it as a substance to be treated with care and as one that can act as a trigger of psychotic breakdown in a minority of people. In fact I think its a much better way of approaching the subject than the "it can't cause any harm at all" approach.

top post, sparrer, and yet again I find myself in near-total agreement with you.

 

[fela fan]

"Thai grass"? That figures. I'd wager you've hitting the mushrooms too by the tone of your posts.

Piss off stalker.

 

[fela fan]

Terribly sorry about that. You still exhibit the mental agility of a sloth on Ketamine.

And your name on these boards seems to exemplify yourself very well indeed.

Good name mate.

 

[Streathamite]

c'mon fela derail it not (though those 2 insults directed at you were uncalled for)

 

[nino_savatte]

Piss off stalker.

"Stalker"? That's not only desperate (for you) but positively wrong. Please provide examples of where I have stalked you. Oh, I forget, you don't 'do' evidence, do you?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

"Stalker"? That's not only desperate (for you) but positively wrong. Please provide examples of where I have stalked you. Oh, I forget, you don't 'do' evidence, do you?

Stalker is the wrong term, you're a myopic pitbull with a cactus rammed up it's arse. Attacking anything you see mobing near you without restraint, thought or any particular finesse.